I've tried both the KME and Lansky system on Zwickeys with good results on each. On the KME, for the initial sharpening, I use coarse grit sandpaper, and then work my way finer and finer. On the Lansky (which I now prefer), for the initial sharpening, I secure a 6" file to one of the stones with a rubber band. It works really well to get the tip down ground quickly. I then switch over to the stones. With either system, I finish up on a set of ceramic rods. The first sharpening does take some time, but you can get them razor sharp with either system.