Wood arrow question?

[Jon Powell]

I need some help please. I'm trying to find what spine I need by shooting some test arrows. I'm getting two distinct groups with six arrows. One group of three arrows right where I want it, and the other group of three about a foot to the left of the first group. Now to the confusing part. Arrows in the centered group spine-58-55-53. The group to the left spine-59-58-55. Other than spine the arrows are as identical as wood arrows can be. The weight difference is less than 10 grains for all six. So how am I suppose to decide what spine to order? What makes arrows so much alike shoot to different spots? By the way these are quality Surewood shafts, and I shot the groups a number of times with the same results. I guess I'm just looking for some sound advice from those with much more experience than I have. Any help will be greatly appreciated. JP

[Stumpkiller]

What makes arrows so much alike shoot to different spots?  

Nocks not centered would be one reason.

I would have said 55#, but you have that in both groups and higher and lower spined in both??

Take the two 55's and mark them and shoot.  Take the better of the two and shoot that three times, by it self, from 10, 15 and 20 yards.  If it hits where you want order a dozen of those.

I suspect one of the 55# shafts is a "problem child".  

If the nock is too tight that can cause a left error, as can the fletch hitting the riser.  What rest are you using?

[kill shot]

Are the diameters the same? What does the arrow flight look like? Try to bare shaft test and see what you get.

[Jon Powell]

Thanks for your reply Stumpkiller. It's a Howard Hill longbow shot off the shelf. If the nocks are not centered would the arrows still shoot into a group? They always make two very nice groups, one is just about a foot left of the other. Again, thanks for your help. JP

[mudfish]

do you have the nocks rotated so that the grain is consistently against the strike plate on all the arrows?

you did not say if you were shooting right handed or left handed, which is important to understand the significance of hitting left

[Stumpkiller]

Yes.  Lets hear the vitals of the bow.  Draw weight at 28" and your draw length.

[Jon Powell]

Kill shot, arrow flight seems to be very good. No fishtailing or porpoising most of the time. All are 11/32 shafts. Thanks for your reply. JP

[**DONOTDELETE**]

reshoot the arrows and mark all that are as center as they get. the ones that aren't marked re-shoot them, this time have cock feather in.. mark the ones that hit center or close..

Mark the ones that need cock feather in. if all arrows are hitting closest to center on this round put to the side.. The ones that aren't hitting center cut 1/4" off re-taper and shoot again.

Now once You get them to fly good You can 1 of 3 things.. Strip the feathers off and bare shaft tune, Paper tune with or w/o feathers or just play with point weight.


But lets hear Your set-up... Bow type, draw weight, draw length, type of string..

[Jon Powell]

Howard Hill Half Breed, 68" long, 47#@29" I draw 29" B50 string.
The arrows are flying great, just to two distinctly different groups. Confusing huh?  :confused:

[Jon Powell]

Nocks are rotated correctly. I shoot right handed. I appreciate all your input. JP

[Bjorn]

Those shafts should divide into 2 groups based on spine-which is why you bought the 2 sets ...........did you spine test them yourself? If so, are you zeroing the tester each time?

I shoot a wider variety than that and that does not happen.  i would guess that if the arrows are straight and the nocks are set properly to the grain, that three of them are crooked.  It could also be that the 11 degree taper is crooked on three of them.  I would find someone else to get arrows from and see what those do.  It could also be that even though you are drawing 29" you may be releasing either soft or at less than 29.  This would make your arrows way too stiff and then any slight thing that could throw the arrow off line will get it shoving to the left.

[lpcjon2]

Ever think that it might be your form or maybe your anticipating the hit and looking at the arrow in flight rather than having a good follow through.

[JamesV]

I have seen this with straight fletched arrows. Seems everything has been cover by the other guys, I would be interested in knowing myself.

James.................

[Fletcher]

Check the easy things first, shaft, nock and point for straight and true.  Like Bjorn, I would re-check the spines.  Have you shot these thru paper yet?  Paper tuning from 6 feet works great for me.  Mark the shafts with a grease pencil or crayon just ahead of the fletch and shoot them.  If the mark smears, the shaft is hitting the plate and is a bit stiff.  

Occasionally, I'll get a wood shaft that just doesn't shoot like the static spine says it should, but 3 of 6 is way out there.  If you try to hand straighten these, do they spring back well, or just take a new bend, kinda like a piece of copper wire?

I know that Surewoods have a great reputation for being straight right from the box, but out of many hundreds I've worked, all but a handful have needed some straightening; most a good bit.

Figuring your bow, 30" BOP and 125 gr point, my est would be 52-56 static spine.  I have some test arrows you could borrow.

[Jon Powell]

Thanks fellows, and I'll try to answer all your questions.
Bjorn: Yes I spine tested them myself and did re-zero each time.
Pavan: They are as straight as I can get them. It's possible the tapers are a little off. I only have a hand held taper tool.
lpcjon2: I work very hard on form and follow through so I don't think that is the problem. It's possible, but I hope not. lol
JamesV: Not straight fletched, but thanks for trying.    
Fletcher: Haven't paper tuned. Very cold here and the wind is really blowing so will have to wait a bit for that. i do hand straighten and the shafts do straighten well. I'm sorry, I should have mentioned before now that I use a 160 grain point. They are cut 30" BOP.

If the point and/or nock tapers are crooked, wouldn't that prevent them from grouping so well consistently? Which would you consider more important to accuracy, nock tapers or point tapers?
Thanks again. JP

[Orion]

Like Pavan, I shoot a wider spine range than that out of my Hills with no problem.  I consider accurate point and nock tapers the most important component of a good arrow.  A slightly bent woodie will fly straight if the nocks and points are on straight.  Even a straight arrow won't fly straight (i.e., where you want it to go) if the nock taper isn't straight. Nock taper has a greater effect on arrow flight than point taper (with field points).  If the nock tapers aren't straight, they will definitely throw the arrows off.

[Jon Powell]

Thanks Orion. I'm going to re-check my tapers and see if that might be the problem. JP