Educate me please. trad gang classifed dealin

[KSdan]

Guys- this could be a sensitive post, but I really want to learn and hear your perspectives.  

I have had VERY GOOD experiences on classifieds.  However, I had an awkward one recently that sort of puzzles me.  IT MAY BE MY HANG UP! READ THAT AGAIN:  it may just be ME!!  But I am curious as to how many of you do your dealings.  So here are my basic rules followed by a recent scenario:

When I deal on Tradgang:  1) If I am selling something, I like to talk to a guy and email.  Once the deal is set I like a guy to send a USPS Money Order, and email me the tracking number.  Once I see the number is on the move, I likewise send the merchandise and email a tracking number.  The merchandise is in the mail before I get the check. I do not like the fact that there is some expectation that the guy sending the money takes the risk and not both parties. 2) Assuming all things arrive, M.O. is in hand and merchandise is in hand. I do not cash the M.O. until the guy affirms the merchandise. If the merchandise does not turn out to be what the guy expected I am fully willing to refund and exchange the item back for the cash-though he will have to cover his end of the shipping.

My latest scenario:  AGAIN- I am not really complaining, but wondering if I see this stuff wrong.  Scenario:  I buy a bow. Good dealing and conversation with the seller. I send the M.O. and he wants it before mailing the bow.  Not the way I deal, but I say nothing and let it go. The bow arrives.  Within the arrival date I realize that this bow has problems tuning up with my long draw. No fault of the seller, but this bow could be a problem for me. I talk to the seller and eventually the actual bowyer. We are left scratching our heads a bit. It is fine at the sellers shorter draw, but for some reason it is very finicky and noisy at the longer draw.  I am just not feeling real good about it. Not a lemon, but difficult. Further, though it seems minor, the bow has a customized name on it that was never revealed to me until after I received it. The pictures posted were taken as not to show the name.  

So, now I am feeling awkward.  The bow does not shoot well for me, and I now have a bow with someone's name on it.  

Within 24-48 hours I ask the seller if we can just trade this back out. I will gladly pay for my shipping back PLUS give him the money it cost him to ship it to me.

He is not comfortable with this and declines.  He suggests I just re-post it in the classifieds.  My problem now is I have a bow that I can not post without being honest about the longer draw problems I am having.  As well, if I post this bow I will need to be honest and mention that it has someone's name on it.        

So.  Educate me here. I am NOT dogging the seller. I should have clarified expectations before I sent the M.O.  I just see it a bit different I guess.

I will sit back and consider it all.

I also hope this situation helps others in their dealings and expectations on the front end.  Make sure you spell it ALL out.  

Dan in KS

[Lone Ranger]

IMO seller should take it back. I would. only way I would NOT take it back was if it was a custom ordered piece, that is something built/ designed for the buyer, that can not be re-sold for the value of materials or time put into it.
IMO you are in the right.

L.R.

[Grey Taylor]

Just to play devil's advocate...
Was there an agreement that the bow would be returned for a full refund if you weren't happy with it?

When we don't line out all the little details in a transaction there can sometimes be a conflict when those little details surface unexpectedly.
What I may think is perfectly reasonable may not be viewed the same by the other party. There's nothing inherently wrong with that difference, but it can be shocking if we aren't expecting it.

Guy

[KSdan]

Guy- No.  We did not spell that out.  My mistake!  I just made some assumptions on how I deal with things.  Not smart.  Also- I am sure the seller is an honest guy- he just sees it different I presume.  

So- the reason for the post. . .  how do most of you do your dealings?  Hopefully my experience will educate others on Tradgang in the best way to spell things out so we can continue to allow this site to be a truly civil and healthy on-line community.

[Whip]

When I sell a bow here I will always undo the deal if the buyer doesn't like it for any reason.  But really, that is just me, and my own way of doing things.  I don't think there is any unwritten expectation that will always be the case with other sellers.  While a nice gesture, some people may not want to offer a "try before you buy" type deal.  It's always best to clarify such things up front.

As for the name on the bow, it is common to disclose that, and he probably should have made sure to tell about it in the ad.  But for me personally it is not a deal breaker, and I don't think a bow has less value because of a name on it.  I've bought them both ways, and have probably gotten some with names that I didn't know were there.  Again, that is just my personal feelings, and if a name bothers you that should have been a question you could have asked.

As for receiving money before shipping, that again can be worked out ahead of time.  But it is standard business practice with any regular retail store that payment is made before merchandise is shipped, and I'm sure that is where the practice originates.  The way the classifieds work here the seller must be established with the minimum posts, etc. before they are even allowed to post an item.  But a buyer can step in from anywhere, so there is probably more caution toward buyers than sellers to some extent.  If a guy is not good at figuring out who is who and how trustworthy they might be caution is appropriate on both sides of the transaction.  

Good luck, I do hope you can work it out.

[Grey Taylor]

It's sticky.
If you try to get all the tiny details and what-ifs figured out before hand you run the risk of seeming to be overly picky and unfriendly. After all, we're all friends here on TG, right?
But if you don't do all that prep work you run the risk of a situation like this present one.
And you're right, neither guy is really in the wrong or dishonest here, they both just have different expectations.

I don't think there's an easy answer.
It's like a pre-nuptual agreement. "But, I thought you loved me, now I see you don't trust me?"

Guy

[S.C. Hunter]

Dan, I personally would take it back. It can be tricky if no agreement was reached regarding being satisfied. I like you send shipping time, date, tracking number, expected delivery date and I usually include my phone number if there are any questions. I have had several trades and bought a couple bows and all were sent at the same time as the buyer or seller. The only bow I had to wait on was because I made a deposit for the bow I wanted. When I informed the seller the balance was in the mail he shipped the bow the very same day. I have had good experiences here so far. I hope this will continue to be the case.

[Mudd]

I think that things happen to us sometimes that don't feel good or right.

I made a trade with someone once with the understanding that if for any reason either of us didn't like the bow we got in trade we could trade back but when I tried to do just that he said too bad, it's your bow now.

I wasn't going to make a fuss so I just had to suck it up and move on.

I also had to forgive that person for my peace of mind.

But I will not deal with that individual in the future.

I'm not in your shoes but I pray you can find a way to get some peace for yourself.

God bless,Mudd

[KSdan]

Got peace Mudd.  Its all dust in the end!

Last thing I want is conflict over "stuff."  I just am on a learning curve here and think it would be good to see how people do their dealings.  Some of it probably could have saved both the seller and I from this awkward experience.

Dan in KS

[Mudd]

I am like you Dan once the deal is done, it's my job to get out whatever end of the deal is mine.

I was bothered more by what sounds like some deception that was involved with your deal.

If a name on the bow would have been a deal breaker for you then it should still be a deal breaker.(IMO)

I'm glad to know you are ok.

God bless,Mudd

[Burnsie]

I would take the bow back if the buyer truly felt I misrepresented the condition or any other aspect of the bow. (That's why I never suger coat the condition of the bow and provide lots of clear pictures showing anything that might be considered a flaw) I guess you might be able to make a case about the name on the bow,  but personally that wouldn't bother me, I've bought several with names.  If having trouble tuning at the longer draw was the only issue, I don't know that I would feel obligated to take it back if I had only ever shot it at my shorter draw.  But I probably would if it turned out to be a big issue with the buyer. I never cash the MO for a week or two until I know the buyer is totally satisfied that he got what I represented the bow to be.

[joekeith]

I've had several deals with people on here that I never met or knew anything of.  No problems,everyone was above board.

  A few months ago I make a deal with someone I met from here that lives near by.  I gave him the bow up front.  Months later I still hadn't received all that was bargained for, after many reguests.  When I tell the guy I'm upset that I haven't got what was promised and want the bow back he says he has already traded it to someone else.  Then he finally gets the rest of the stuff for me, actually he puts it outside his house in the rain for me to come get.  I get the stuff, and am not happy with the quality of most of it.  He says tuff, a deals a deal.  Thanks Butch.

  You just never know.  Most all here are real stand up guys.  But there are those that'll screw ya first chance they get.  I try to treat people how I want to be treated.  But a lowlife just wants to screw someone.  Keep your eyes open and good luck.  

[dirtguy]

Dan,

I haven't had a bad deal.  Lots of great folks here on Trad Gang.

That being said, I can understand the seller's reluctance. In most cases, with used items, you don't have the option of returning them.  This becomes difficult with things like bows that are better "try before your buy" items.  But unless there was some stipulation about a trial period, I can't say that I blame him for not wanting it back.

BUT...If it were me I'd take it back.

[Bjorn]

Any deal I do is "satisfaction guaranteed or deal undone-money refunded, whatever it takes" no questions asked. End of story.

[dposalski]

I am always willing to take back a bow and refund money.  However, many of us would never sell our bows unless life circumstances required us to do so.  In a situation like that, it may be a situation in which your seller REALLY needed the cash, and thus the money is gone.  It may not be his standard practice, but his situation may have necessitated his rudeness.

I know many, including myself, buy and sell for the pure joy of trying new stuff and seeing other bows, etc.  In those situations, we aren't trading for the money, but rather, for the experience of sharing our bow with fellow Tradgangers.  When that is the case, we have no problems taking back our bows and refunding money.

[Olin Rindal]

I guess I have never though of this before. Probably because I am with Bjorn on this " satisfaction guaranteed". Especially in a deal like this one. The seller knows that your taken his word on things and you don't know if its a good match until you try it out. I'm sure if you were face to face you would have tried it before any money was transferred. I guess I would hold the money until I got the bow back so I could make sure it was in the original condition and then I would send the money back pronto!!
Hope things work out for you bud

Olin

[ronp]

Good post with a few things to think about before entering into a deal.  This is a great place to buy/sell/trade.  I refunded money from a bow I sold without hesitation.  The bow was in great shape, just not what the buyer expected. He paid for the extra shipping.  It looks like you will have to just post it for sale and hope to get back all or most of your money.

[Rob DiStefano]

ya know, there's a sticky post on the trad bow classifieds that spells out things to think about before entering a deal ... bears reading for some of you folks ...

 BUYING, SELLING, TRADING - some basic common sense guidelines

... also, the FAQ now has updated classifieds info and tips for posting, buying/selling/trading, and shipping.