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Author Topic: What size Carbon for my Shrew???  (Read 351 times)

Offline david janssen

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What size Carbon for my Shrew???
« on: February 02, 2011, 11:19:00 AM »
I need some help where to start with a carbon arrow set-up for my Shrew Classic Hunter.

I would like to use the 175gr VPA broadheads.
My bow is 44#@26".Will the 500 series work ok?Arrows cut to 28"?Whitetails only and shots 15yds or less?

Thanks for the help,

David
David Janssen

Offline Crash

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Re: What size Carbon for my Shrew???
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 11:24:00 AM »
28" may be a little stiff.  If you know what size tip you want to use, you are better off starting long and tuning down by cutting the arrow off a little at a time.
"Instinctive archery is all about possibilities.  Mechanist archery is all about alternatives. "  Dean Torges

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Re: What size Carbon for my Shrew???
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 11:26:00 AM »
What is your draw length?

I am with Crash on this one.  If you are only drawing 26" I believe the 500's will be too stiff at 28".  An arrow with a .600 spine should work better.
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Offline amar911

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Re: What size Carbon for my Shrew???
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2011, 12:29:00 PM »
David,

You might look at the AD Trad Lites. They are very spine tolerant and seem to shoot well from all my Classic Hunters, including the one I got from you. Of course, I have a 29.5" draw which increases both the draw weight and the length of the arrows and thus requires a stiffer spine than what you would ordinarily need. But because of the spine tolerance of the tapered shaft design and the fairly high point weight you are suggesting you would be using with the 175 grain VPA, I think the Trad Lites would work well for you. I also use the 100 grain brass inserts for strength and forward weight. If you wanted to go to a little heavier and stronger shaft that is all but indestructible when striking any object, the AD Hammerhead Lites are another good option. The only disadvantage is that their extra weight results in a lower velocity, but at 15 yards or less that is not a significant difference.

If I were you and wanted to shoot one of the AD Lite shafts, I would get one that is 30" long and glue in the insert with hot melt so you could see how it shoots. If it works okay and you still want a shorter arrow, then you have to heat and pull the insert and cut the shaft from the front because the tapered design will not permit cutting from the rear without increasing the inside diameter of the rear of the shaft and making it too large for the nocks. I also like to use Easton unibushing glue-in inserts and g-nocks instead of the push-in nocks that come with the shafts because the unibushings and g-nocks are so much tougher. The g-nocks themselves push into the unibushings and can rotate for proper fletch alignment, so you don't give up that ability. What you do lose is the ability to pull the nock and insert a drill bit or metal rod to knock out the insert if you use that technique. I have not had a problem with removing the front inserts through careful heating of a field tip to pull the inserts on my AD shafts. Some people have complained that the push-in nocks supplied with the AD shafts often do not fit well, but they have worked fine for me, just not as well as the unibushings and g-nocks.

After you have experimented with cutting down the shaft to the length that works best for your setup, I recommend you use a more permanent form of glue for the front insert. Slow set marine epoxy is what I prefer to use and have never had a problem with it. The five minute epoxy has failed me before under extreme conditions, so I don't use it for inserts anymore. Big Jim claims to have a hot melt glue that securely attaches inserts to carbon shafts. He should know.

If you are trying to develop an arrow that works well for your bow, make sure you start with only one shaft and cut it back as you go, rather than cutting a dozen arrows and then finding out you made them too short and ended up with arrows that are too stiff. Remember if you use AD shafts that they do not bare shaft well, and even the company that makes them does not recommend bare shaft tuning. Just fletch them and start shooting. I like 4 x 4" fletching on the AD shafts, and that has always worked well for me, but 3 x 5" is good too. When you have found the configuration that works on the development arrow, you can make them all that way. Most folks I have talked with find that they can change point weight significantly on arrows with the AD shafts without adversely affecting arrow flight. I have had the same experience. Terry Green shoots AD shafts too -- I think exclusively -- and he could give you more information on them. Joe Coots (JC) has had an issue with the AD shafts creating a spiraling effect as they fly towards the target, so he was not using them last time I talked with him. JC has a short draw too, like you, so that might make a difference. My son has shot your Classic Hunter and has about the same draw length as you do. My AD arrows seem to work fine for him at 31" length, but the arrows that always shoot well from his bows are the Carbon Express Heritage 90 arrows. I do have some concern that AD shafts may not work as well with shorter arrows and at lower draw weights.

For the best advice on arrows, I would recommend you call Paul Mattson at Badger Arrows or Ted Fry at Raptor Archery. Both of them have extensive experience with various makes of shafts, including the AD shafts, and they will know what will work for you. Besides that, they are both great guys whom you would enjoy dealing with. You could probably talk one of them into sending you a "test kit" of arrows to try so you could see what works best for you. That could be a little more expensive up front but would allow you to figure out what works best for you before you start buying a dozen arrows that are not what you want and wasting a lot of time and money.

Allan
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Offline sweeney3

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Re: What size Carbon for my Shrew???
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2011, 12:32:00 PM »
The way I typically like to do carbons, and I use GTs, but it would work similarly, is to get the arrows a little on the stiff side, and a little long, say 30, 31 inches.  Then you are free to experiment a bit with adding weight to the front in the form of heavier points, inserts, tubes, etc untill you find what works.  If you need to, you can cut them down an inch or two to stiffen them up more if you want really heavy front weight.  Hope that helps a bit.
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Offline Paul WA

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Re: What size Carbon for my Shrew???
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2011, 01:04:00 PM »
With 175 up front he may be ok with 500's. I have a long draw 30" and with 175 up front I use 400's and get bullet holes when paper tuning...PR
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Offline fz4vgq

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Re: What size Carbon for my Shrew???
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2011, 01:23:00 PM »
David, I shoot a Shrew..... Classic Hunter, 54", 46#@25", SBD 6 strand bow string with SBD's string silencers set with a 7.5" brace height. I shoot Beman MFX Classics, 600 spine, 28.5" long, I use the 75gr brass HIT insert and a 125 grain point and get perfect arrow flight. I used Stu's calculator to arrive at those #'s and it was nearly spot on..... I ordered 100, 125 and 145 grain points just to have options when tuning. The perfect combination for my bow was 7.5" brace height and the 125 grain points.

Offline Ray Lyon

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Re: What size Carbon for my Shrew???
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 06:26:00 AM »
Stu's calculator seems to be pretty darned accurate for getting you close. Like Allan, I've got a longer draw with my Shrews 29.5, so my personal setup is not a good comparison, however my son used to shoot a Shrew that Allan has right now and it loved Blackhawk Vapor carbon 2000's cut to 28" with 200 grains up front. He was getting about 37#'s at his draw. I think the rule of thumb of 5 grains of point weight is similar to 1# of draw weight is pretty accurate and that would put your setup pretty close with a Blackhawk 2000.
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