FOC Question?

[BuckyT]

I've been tweaking and playing with my new bow everyday trying to get everything tuned up properly.

Think I've been making some good progress with it!

I calculated the FOC on my shafts at a little over .20percent at the moment.

From what I read this seems to be pretty good, but that's only one article I've read.

Do y'all think the FOC on y'alls arrows really makes a difference in the performance of your setup?

[Javi]

Yes in flight and penetration...

FOC is great as long as the arrow is tuned correctly to the bow. I shoot arrows that are in the 22-23% FOC range. That being said, I would rather have a lower FOC arrow that is properly tuned than a higher FOC arrow that is out of tune,

Bisch

[hvyhitter]

My FOC is whatever it ends up being after tuning. Unless you are hunting buffalo or shooting a really light bow its not all that critical for an effective hunting set-up. Think about the giant pile of critters that were killed with bear razorheads at 115 gr and deadheads at 135 gr, neither lends themselves to very high FOC. Having your arrows fly straight is more important.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by BuckyT:

Do y'all think the FOC on y'alls arrows really makes a difference in the performance of your setup?

Honestly, FOC is the absolute last thing I give any concern to when making arrows.

[xia_emperor]

Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
 

Originally posted by BuckyT:

Do y'all think the FOC on y'alls arrows really makes a difference in the performance of your setup?

Honestly, FOC is the absolute last thing I give any concern to when making arrows. [/b]

same here, if the arrow does not fly well, than why would FOC matter.

[Friend]

Curent data, which is being substantiated, suggest that arrows in the 32% Ultra-EFOC range enjoy a 5-7% penetration increase per every single percentage FOC increase above 19% FOC.
Note: the measureable benefits in pentration are not incurred until FOC climbs above 19%.

Some comments may possibly come from sources that have never experienced Ultra-EFOC.

My current set-up for a 51# bow is a
Victory 350 HV (6.7 gpi)
100 grain insert
300 - Big JIm 'Big 3
32.4 %- Ultra-EFOC
Tot Wt - 608 grains

1. Bare shafts noticeably than any of my numerous previous set-ups.

2. Penetrates an 18 in 1 Rhinehart significantly deeper than any previous set-ups

3. Bare Shafts, Fletched shafts and Shafts with the Big 3's group wonderfully.

Could have gone with a
Victory HV 400….6.2 gpi-29.0” arrow~318 up front~ 515 gn-total-~30.0% FOC

or a

Victory HV 350… 6.7 gpi-29.6” arrow~350 up front~ 565 gn-total-~30.3% FOC


Your own testing should satisfy your concerns.

[Night Wing]

FOC became the rage with carbon arrows. I shoot aluminum arrows which are not as stiff when compared to carbon arrows so I don't really pay that much attention to FOC. Since I do shoot aluminum arrows, I pay strict attention to GPP instead. I've shot aluminum arrows from 2114, 2212 and 2213 out of my 37# recurve and 2212, 2213, 2215 and 2117 out of my 42# recurve so GPP can be quite heavy.

Right now with my 42# and 37# recurves, with both bows shooting the same light 2212 aluminum arrow, but with different brace heights, I'm basically shooting 14.1% FOC. Both bows shoot a good GPP arrow wise with the 37# recurve shooting, as of right now before I try and tweak it some more by adjusting the brace height, 13.00 GPP.

So, if one chooses to shoot carbon arrows, they'll always have a high FOC arrow whereas one who shoots an aluminum arrow won't have a high FOC number. But, the carbon arrow will usually have a lower GPP number than an aluminum arrow.

In essence, a trade off.

[Javi]

FOC became the rage if you want to call it a rage, when people started noticing that arrows with a weight forward balance point flew better in the wind and penetrated deeper than arrows with little or no  weight forward balance..  If you put a little thought to it, it'll make sense...

As for building an arrow, I have a target in mind with both mass weight and weight forward which I think will handle the shooting I plan to do with that bow.  Then I look for a shaft that will give me proper spine at those numbers... I then test to see what flies the best, trimming and adjusting point/insert weight until I get the flight I'm happy with..  I'm sure most of you do the same...

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by BuckyT:
...
Do y'all think the FOC on y'alls arrows really makes a difference in the performance of your setup?

all arrows need some decent amount of foc (10-15%).  butt as long as there is some, then for the most part no, foc is not a prime consideration at hunting distances.  if you have it, fine.  easy to acquire with carbons or alums, much harder with woodies.

[Tom1954]

Someone recently posted a thread showing carbons embedded in the hands and wrists of shooters.  Now, every time I read threads with extreme FOC, I wonder what risk they are taking with potential blowups.  Hopefully, all of those shooting extreme FOC have adequately stiff shafts. Otherwise, basic physics tells me they are at risk.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Tom1954:
Someone recently posted a thread showing carbons embedded in the hands and wrists of shooters.  Now, every time I read threads with extreme FOC, I wonder what risk they are taking with potential blowups.  Hopefully, all of those shooting extreme FOC have adequately stiff shafts. Otherwise, basic physics tells me they are at risk.

what basic physics?  do you have empirical data that defines there is a threshold where too much up front weight on a specific carbon shaft will render it a ticking bomb?  

let's not make this foc thing more than what it is.

i don't think anyone is at risk using a tested carbon arrow that has lots of upfront weight (or not).  

you ARE at risk for not checking ANY carbon arrow before nocking, drawing and releasing.  check for splintering and check for a cracked or loose nock.  dittos for woodies.

[Javi]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:

you ARE at risk for not checking ANY carbon arrow before nocking, drawing and releasing.  check for splintering and check for a cracked or loose nock.  dittos for woodies.

Very true..  

[Stumpkiller]

I shoot wood arrows and use up all but 1/2" for draw and tapers by the time I size to my 30-1/2" BOP length from the 32" raw shaft.  I get 630 gr with a 125 gr point with Douglas fir.  I have no idea what weight head I would need to get 30% FOC, I'm not sure but I think I came up with 13% currently, but since my arrows occasionally clear the offside of a deer cleanly and most often are to the fletch on the near side I don't lack for penetration as it is.  14" and I've got two openings for daylight on Mr. Whitetail.

I'd rather not accomidate the trajectory penalty a 280 gr head or whatever that would be required. And a wider head would just rob me of penetration.  ;-)

[BuckyT]

Thanks for the info guys.  I've been bare shaft tuning and right now at 15yds, my bare shafts hit where the fletched arrows hit.  The bare shafts aren't flying like needles, but they hit where the fletched shafts hit.  Again, from what I've read, that's good and the article I read said not to worry about how straight the bare shafts are flying but be concerned on where they impact the target.

I believe I'm on the right path and I noticed the FOC article and figured I'd use the formula on my arrows to see what they were coming out to.

I don't have anybody that lives near me that is knowledgeable in trad bows, so I'm just going about it myself.  Actually a very fun learning curve!

Again thanks for the info!

BuckyT

[Ragnarok Forge]

Short anwer, yes it enhances performance.  The question is what performance.  FOC enhances penetration.  The more EFOC you have the better your penetration for one specific set of arrows.  The real keys to good penetration are razor sharp broadheads and perfect arrow flight.  

I use carbons and have an FOC right around 30%.  I spent the time and money it took to find EFOC in my arrows as an enhancement of my system. It does not change the requirement to practice and tune to perfection.  Millions of animals have been killed with standard FOC arrows.  EFOC or HFOC can't make up for bad shots or bad angles on shots.

[Roughrider]

In my opinion, yes FOC does make a difference.  In shooting lots of arrows of wood, carbon and aluminum, and trying everything from fairly low FOC to EFOC, I feel EFOC does help an arrow's stability in flight, particularly if there is a crosswind or some little obsticle is "ticked" by the arrow in flight.  

It also seems, in the field, EFOC does penetrate better.  I really notice the difference in seeing the penetration of my wife's arrows from a light weight (41#) bow.  

I haven't "scientifically" tested any of this, so maybe I'm just seeing the results I want to see ... Something to play around with this summer.    I do know that while doing some playing around last summer, I had a 350 gr broadhead on an arrow, and filled the shaft about 3/4 of it's length with .177 lead pellets from a pellet gun - the arrows were extremely heavy, flew well except for a very arching trajectory, and blew through or knocked over the target.  I don't remember what they weighed, but I think you could have shot them lengthwise through a buffalo - if you ever have the desire to do so ...

[Friend]

Best of luck! Sounds like you are on track.