Wounding Policy?

[Shawn Leonard]

I know Terrys daughter Jen and she is a fine young lady and I respect her decision, my problem is the wounding policy with knowledgable hunters. I am sure Terry knows this bear was dead and Jen too and thus made an informed decision, but what about the guy or girl who has a deer jump the string and slices the deer across the backstraps, or shoots low on a bear at a bait and knows he only clipped the front leg. It is lousy for this person to travel maybe thousands of miles to have to end their hunt on shots like these. I understand both sides but as a guide or outfitter I would also hope I could judge people pretty quickly and take their word on the hit and than go from there. I myself lost quite a few animals when I first started big game hunting, due to being young and impatient and a host of other things, but even than usually new if the hit was fatal or not. Now with my years of experience I can almost always tell if my hit was fatal unless it is a fluke or I honestly did not see where the arrow entered. This may upset some people but bears over bait is one area where I may see this wound policy in use, as most guys should be effective enough shots to put an arrow in the boiler room at 10-15 yards. Can a bad hit still happen? Yes but the odds are in the hunters favor in this instance. Book with whoever you feel comfortable with, whatever their policy. Shawn

[Scott Teaschner]

As with anything that sort of hits on the political side you will always have strong opinions one way or another. That's why even in organizations such as bow clubs differences in members opinions sometimes get in the way of the main goal. That is to just have fun. You saying the policy puts an undo pressure on you is your doing not the policy. You have not even reached the point of going on the hunt and its causing a problem in your subconscious. No one wants to intentionally wound an animal but it happens. If any one says they have never they either have not bow hunted very long or are liars it happens.
 
 Having guided back country elk hunts for archery elk I have seen many things happen some not very fun. Guided rifle hunts gets even more scary. This policy is kind of a blanket policy. In saying that you never know what kind of hunter you may have in camp. Believe me there is all kinds. You may be the most ethical hunter there is but we don't know that and some people are not. It would not really matter if you knew every body personally the policy I feel still needs to be in affect. The reason being for elk is the resources no matter how good are limited. Wounding animals whether they live or not will cut down the quality of the area. Where I guide up against The park up in Montana the herd is pretty good but we have wolves to deal with. Any animal that is hurt or slows up will probably not have a good chance of healing and surviving.
 
 When people come out west to hunt they are concerned with physical conditioning and shooting well up and down hill. These are important but two other very important if not the most important topics are over looked. I put learning anatomy and mental conditioning at the top. I believe education can limit wounded animals and I believe it should be on the top of an outfitters list. Who cares what kind of boots to wear when mentally your not prepared and you don't know anatomy. You may have shot many a critters but when mister bull comes in on you and takes a leak in your lap and you did not mentally prepare for it ahead of time you will have problems. Why do you think the military has boot camp its a lot of mental preparedness.
 
 I will give some insight of what has happened in the past and why these policies are in effect. We have 5 hunters in camp at a time all 1 on 1 guided hunts. It was the 3rd week of Sept. the elk where hot every one was in elk. On the same day we had 3 hunters connect and not one animal recovered. I was one of the guides who's hunter wounded an animal. He was a accomplished hunter had killed an elk with his bow in the past. I was directly behind him so close I could touch him. Animal turned broadside 15 yards away he drew took careful aim hit where he was aiming he just shot him in the shoulder blade. I seen it all and we had very minimal penetration. The hunter was convinced he made an excellent shot and even told me I may have not seen correctly for he felt he had pass through. I believe the other two hunters took frontal shots. We spent days looking and never found them. I did catch a smell from one of them about 5 days latter. But I would not go through the dark timber looking because of grizzlies. This was a terrible shame that I feel could have been prevented through education. You will on occasion get a hunter that wants to go home with something so bad he takes risky shots. But these where good guys they just did not come prepared. If we let all these guys go after more elk we could have easily had a half dozen animals with arrows in them. If you where scheduled the following week for your hunt and you new a half dozen elk had been wounded would you be concerned? If it where me and I new I would want a full refund. Where not dealing with a disposable resource here and outfitters treat it as such.
 
  I feel that if it where me I would want to go with the outfitter who has the policy. I think you will have a better chance at a quality hunt. The outfitter that states he has that policy has taken a measure to insure he gets quality hunter. I know it would be hard to punch a tag on a grazed animal but that has not happened yet and your putting undo pressure on yourself. Educate yourself the best you can practice mentally and physically and just go have a good time. Pick your outfitter not by that policy alone but that he meets your other more important requirements. I did not mean to drag this out but I hope it sheds some more light on the subject.
Thanks Scott

[GO Rogers]

Well said, point well made and taken.      

[JParanee]

I have hunted all over the world and only in Africa with a game scout present have I seen them enforce a blood on the ground tag used policy.  Most guides I have hunted with here in the US have been more than fair about not ending a hunt if a wounded animal could not be recovered in fact once in NM I wounded a large elk the guide said after 2 days of looking we could move on but I choose to not stop looking and spent the rest of my time searching.

To expect a guide to look the other way would be wrong

Bowhunting and wounding animals goes hand in hand that is why you should choose your shots wisely and hunt with outfits that cater to bowhunting

[Kevin Dill]

I can only see 2 reasons for an outfitter to have/enforce a wounding policy:

1) He outright owns the animals.

2) He is morally or ethically opposed to continuing the hunt after an animal is wounded and not recovered.


I'll likely never hunt with someone who owns (as personal property) the creature I'm after, so I'm unaffected by that.

As far as morals and ethics go, all you need do is find an outfitter who's beliefs match your own. Easy enough.

Where I DO have an issue would be with an outfitter who looks at wildlife as his lunch ticket. If he's "protecting the resource" to protect his pocketbook, that is a selfish motivation.

[jhg]

Originally posted by Kevin Dill:

...Where I DO have an issue would be with an outfitter who looks at wildlife as his lunch ticket. If he's "protecting the resource" to protect his pocketbook, that is a selfish motivation.

Of course they are protecting their pocketbook and guiding IS their lunch ticket.

All the outfitters I have worked for or know are pretty good people and I never met any that were doing anything else other than the best they could to make a living and feed their families. Long hours etc...
Maybe some outfitters are not very ethical in how they apply a wounding policy but why focus on the  poorly run operations when so many are run well.
 
Repeat business is a very big deal in the guiding world and the successful outfitters don't do things that put off clients, like enforcing a wounding policy in a thoughtless way.

I think some of you are missing the point too. Many hunters do not come prepared. Regardless of how you approach hunting preparedness, when a business taking people out into the woods there is no way to know what will happen out there.

J-

[K.S.TRAPPER]

Very well said Scott    Nicely done!!

Tracy

[Mint]

I have no problem as long as it is stated up front in writing. I went on a kansas deer hunt and the policy was if you wounded an animal you had to pay $1,000 to keep hunting if the animal was not found. Seemed very fair to me and was stated up front. Where i go hog hunting in Florida they have a wounding policy where you pay thetrophy fee if you wound a hog and my friends and i don't have a problem with it and think it is a good idea so people wait for the shot and not shoot up the place since he is loaded with hogs. This outfitter goes the extra mile trying to find your hogs too and we have not lost many due to his and our diligence. If you just graze a hog he will not charge you for it which is more than fair.

[tarponnut]

I think it's a fair question for a guide to ask a prospective client about his/her effective shooting range.
Every client should ask about the wounding policy of the guide before the hunt.
For hogs at least, I won't hunt with an outfitter that has a "wounding policy"(blood drawn equals dead hog).

[JohnV]

How many animals should a hunter be permitted to wound before you say, "no more"?  I think this applies not only to guided hunts but to friends that you let hunt your own property.  I'm willing to give friends one mulligan, but any more wounded deer after that and I'm telling them they are done.  I work hard to manage the deer on my property and am not willing to let someone wound an unlimited number of deer.  I'm not so sure I want someone to hunt on my property if they don't offer to punch their tag after wounding multiple deer on my place.  It shows a lack of respect for the deer and the property I am managing.

Outfitters with wounding policies have an obligation to make certain all hunters are aware of the policy prior to booking anyone.  It seems most Canadian outfitters are going to wounding policies where you are either done or pay a penalty fee if you continue hunting after a wound.  Most will tell you it is the guide's call and if they are certain the wound was superficial will give you a second chance.

[Friend]

Whether just or not, in most instances, the animal takes the real loss.

The pain I experience from an unrecovered animal is far greater than any trophy fee. If it wasn't, then I should not be signing up for such a hunt and should refocus on the value of these animal's lives before pursueing them on any type of hunt.

**I have spent more time searching for a lost arrow than I have painfully witnessed others pursue wounded game. Without these wonderful creatures, my spirit will die. These values are my own and are not intended to be imposed on anyoneelse.**

[wingnut]

I've hunted Africa where blood equals paying for the animal and I regularly hunt a pig operation in Texas that has one pig a day limit and if you wound one it counts as your daily pig.  I have no problem with either policy.  I'm responsible for my shot and responsible for recovering the animal after I loose an arrow.  If I don't do my job it's not up to the outfitter to take the hit it's all mine.

I've punched elk and deer tags over the years when I didn't recover an animal that I knew was dead.  It' part of the game to take responsibility for your actions.  

So if you have a problem with an outfitter that counts a wounded animal as dead, then don't hunt with them.  But also don't ask to hunt with me.

Mike

[BUFF]

100% with wingnut. If I shoot it it is mine whether I can find it or not is on me

[bucksbuouy]

Deer have no better ability to recover from injuries then people do. Mammals in general are remarkably similar on the anatomical level. In fact the unsanitary environment that they live in only serves to promote infection and bacteria growth in wild animals that are injured. I dont want to start an argument but I live and hunt in an area with high densities of both deer and hunters and Ive seen and heard so many HORROR stories about injured deer. Like I said, its bound to happen, and its ok, but lets not kid ourselves. If a broadhead goes through some flesh, there is a good chance Bambi's gonna bite it.

[bucksbuouy]

Scott- You make a lot of sense my friend. Thank you.

[4 point]

If I made a bad hit on a animal such a shoulder or any other shot that I felt was a nonlethal hit I'd like to keep hunting to see if I could get another shot at that animal. If I felt the animal was laying dead from the shot then I would like to spend the rest of my time in camp looking for it. That's what I do at home and if the outfitter didn't agree with that I wouldn't book a hunt with them. I'm kind of hard headed and set in my ways and I don't need a outfitter telling me what is ethical. I wouldn't force my thoughts them either, just wouldn't book with them but don't hold it against them for the rules they set.