Tapered woodies

[Bob B.]

Is there any significant difference between a 23/64 tapered top 5/16 and a 11/32 tapered to 5/16 in performance?  I shoot a 31 inch arrow 70-74 spine with 145 up front.  Also is there much difference between Sitka Spruce and POC relative to good arrow flight?

Bob.

[deaddoc4444]

Lots of variations here to contend with  What weight bow?  Bows listed in your signature are all way to light to be shooting 70/74 spine  even at that length.   I USUALLY dont taper down to 5/16 on 23/64 shafts  but I have done it and with no harm . How much taper? usual taper is 10 inches  I taper mine 16 inches for a more gradual taper .  
   Arrow flight is usualy more determined by the weight/spine/feather( length /height) combination  rather than type of wood never seen any diference in flight due to wood type

[smoke1953]

Bob, I'm a similar setup however I use hardwood and taper to 10 with 11/32 to 5/16. I could never attest to performance difference with the 10" taper, pretty much have done it just because it's part of my process in making arrows and psychologically I feel if my arrow flight has improved. However as you already know our form during the shot so predominates everything else that the differences that occur with taper is likely negligible in my opinion, but I'll probably continue to taper just because I do.

[Don Stokes]

I think you're probably fine with that spine. Sitka spruce and POC are close enough in density that you shouldn't see a difference due to species, or the starting shaft diameter either.

[cedar]

I have never seen any significant difference in performance between the two diameters when both are tapered to 5/16.  It comes down to which one tunes best out of your bows.  Sitka spruce and POC will both give you excellent arrow flight with no significant differecne except I have found that my Sitka spruce are usually alittle lighter in physical weight than my POC.    
As far as your bows go, if you are shooting around 50 lb bows at 30" draw with a 31" arrow, I think your arrow choice is right on.  Of course you are the only judge of that.

[Bob B.]

I find that with 65-70 I have sporadic arrow flight.  With 70 -75 spine it is nearly as good a carbons.  73 spine seems to be the one my bow wants most.  Anyway, I appreciate the replies.

Bob.

[wapiti792]

Bob I bought some nice rear-tapered 11/32 to 5/16 arrows, and they fly great. Footed with 50gr of steel inside and a 125gr tip. I then built my own 70-75s and didn't know how to taper...same results with paralel shafts. As long as they were straight they flew awesome! By the way I shoot a 31 inch arrow, a Talltines 52 at 28 longbow. I draw to 29.5.

[Wheels2]

The best I ever shot were 23/64 that were compressed to 11/32, then tapered.  Can't find them around any longer.

[Green]

Wheels - if you're looking for arrows/shafts that are 23/64", compressed and tapered contact Magnus.  He makes top drawer arrows and that's the way he does it.

[Arwin]

I'm shooting tapered chundoo shafts 23/64 down to 5/16 and 55/60 spine. I think they fly a little better than parallel chundoo shafts.

 Never tried 11/32 tapered down so I don't have a comparison.

[Dave Bulla]

Bows listed in your signature are all way to light to be shooting 70/74 spine even at that length.  

I believe I've gotta disagree there... As a card carrying member of the gorilla arm club, I've found that it is amazing how quickly you need to add spine.

For example, the heaviest bow he has listed is the Deathwish longbow that is 54# @ 30" with a 31" arrow.  That's 3 inches over 28 so add 15 lbs right there....so in the 75/80 spine range.  Shooting 145 grain point may or may not be enough to put you up another spine increment but if you have a high performance string, that'll put you up one group so 80-85#.

The lowest draw weight bow is the Mohawk longbow that is 40# @ 28".  Figure 2.5# per inch would make it about 45# @ 30".  Never did say if he draws 30 or 31 inches, I'm guessing 30 with an inch of overhang for clearance but we go by arrow length anyway so add 15 lbs again and that takes us from the 45-50 group on up to the 60-65 range.  Add one group if using fast flight or similar string and it's 65-70 range.  Heavy point might put it close to the next slot of 70-75#.

But, regardless of that, that's not what is being asked about.

I've used a lot of tapered cedars from Rogue River when they were in business and I always thought they were better than parallel shafts I'd tried but I honestly don't know if the shafts were better because they were tapered or better because RR took such great pains to produce a quality shaft.  My last batch of shafts I bought were Surewoods, Douglas Fir parallels but I have not yet built them.  Quality is outstanding and I have high hopes for them.  I was happy as a clam to get the high spines I needed of 100-105 with samples in 105-110 and 110-115# to try heavier point weights I normally can't shoot.

FYI, my bow is a Lonetree longbow, 60@30 but I'm pulling 32", use fast flight and foot my arrows to 33" to get 32" BOP arrow.

[Bob B.]

Thanks for the info Dave.  I am looking for woodies for my Deathwish.  I do draw 30 inches,and the bow is a very mild R/D, even less so than a Mowhawk.  It does have a deep narrow core, 5 lams - back and belly are yew, the 3 cores are tempered boo. He uses T-97 bow string ( I have never heard of it).  It is pretty thick, I believe it is a mix of b-50 and D-97?  Anyway, woodies fly excellently, but I believe the bow wants a 73 spine arrow.  I was wondering if tapered shafts flew better or perhaps improved FOC ( significantly? ). I do have some shafts form Hildebrant comming, 11/32 to 5/16 as well as some POC 23/64 to 5/16.  So, I will get to see if there is a differnece or not.

Bob.

[deaddoc4444]

Dave      
   I understand you taking me to task there and in this case you are correct .  
     Several things I did NOT take in to consideration  due to my experience  and not lookng at all the facts .
 Being a FORMER  member of that club  shooting back in the 70s/80s/ and early 90s   with MY 86# HH big 5  and several other makers shooting regularly in the 72# Plus range for years .  ALSO   MOST   spine testers test over a 26inch range  there fore   it is even more critical to go heavier  on longer arrows. I shoot 26.5 inch draw  now  but at one time, early 70s I shot target style and had a 29.5 inch draw   so had to adjust back then  but havnt had to in years.
    MY experience has not made me need higher spine most of the time  whith What I shot  so I reacted before I thought.
    That said  I will not shoot any more arrows   that are not tapered   ( with the exception  of something I make as a throw away arrow)  I shoot right now 11/32 tapered to 5/16   I also shoot 3/8 tapered to 11/32  I have not had a lot of shafts of 23/64 size in quite a while so have not tapered them in a long time   I know I have tpared some down to 5/16   but dont realy remember the results.

[Don Stokes]

deaddoc, although the spine testers have supports on 26" centers, they are calibrated to a 28" shaft. That's just so the arrow stays on the supports when the weight is applied.

[Dave Bulla]

Bob said    

Anyway, woodies fly excellently, but I believe the bow wants a 73 spine arrow. I was wondering if tapered shafts flew better or perhaps improved FOC ( significantly? ). I do have some shafts form Hildebrant comming, 11/32 to 5/16 as well as some POC 23/64 to 5/16. So, I will get to see if there is a differnece or not.

Sounds like you've got your particular bow figured out pretty well.  You came up with a bit lower number than I did but having the bow in hand makes all the difference.  Possibly a combination of the very mild r/d profile, the deep limb core, maybe a bit less center shot than average or actual draw being 30 rather than 31 inches made the difference but regardless, the whole pounds per inch over or under 28 inches is just a guideline anyway.  Heck, the shooters form can account for 5 to 10 pounds difference needed.

As for tapered vs straight, like I said in my first post, I'm not convinced one is better than the other but I suspect tapered might be a little bit more forgiving.  But at the same time, I can't help but think that either style, properly tuned would both have perfect flight.  Maybe the tapered shafts help a bit if your form is a little sloppy???  As for the FOC, yes, it will make a bit of a difference but not in any way changing point weight couldn't accomplish equally well from the other end of the arrow.

Probably one of the main reasons I liked tapered shafts is the appearance of the nock fit is much better and I could use 5/16 nocks on everything.  Little nocks on full diameter arrows look goofy.