Your thoughts on bare shafting

[Dave Lay]

Originally posted by Protege Longbows:
I prefer to bareshaft.

The ideal fletched arrow should bareshaft either perfect or SLIGHTLY (very slightly) weak...but it should not be too stiff at all. When you fletch an arrow, you add weight AND wind resistance to the nock end of the arrow...and that in effect causes a "stiffening" of the arrow's dynamic spine.

x 3 !!!
 i strive for a very slightly weak shaft but the real test is broadheads on your hunting arrows.

[SaltyDawg]

Originally posted by Dave Lay:
 

Originally posted by Protege Longbows:
I prefer to bareshaft.

The ideal fletched arrow should bareshaft either perfect or SLIGHTLY (very slightly) weak...but it should not be too stiff at all. When you fletch an arrow, you add weight AND wind resistance to the nock end of the arrow...and that in effect causes a "stiffening" of the arrow's dynamic spine.

x 3 !!!
 i strive for a very slightly weak shaft but the real test is broadheads on your hunting arrows. [/b]

X 4

Exactly what I do, but it is very slight.

I can tune for really good arrow flight without bare shafting.

The only reason I bare shaft is to reduce the amount of work the fletching is having to do, which increases performance.

[SteveB]

Originally posted by Outwest:
I know one thing.
If you don't have good consistent form and release you will drive yourself nuts trying to bareshaft.

John

Only if you are trying to get perfect bs flight.
Not an issue if using the planning method (comparing bs to fletched groups).

[Mint]

I use Stu Millers spine tester program and then I will bare shaft and paper test to make sure. most of the time there are problems it is because of my release.

[Bowwild]

I'm with Night Wing and Huntschool (and others)/ I just learned of Stu's calculator on this site last spring. It is terrific and has gotten me very close to dead on every time. I've played with Easton Legacy shafts in 1916 and 2016. I've settled on Beman MFX shafts with 3, 4" feathers in two spines -- 600 and 500. My arrows are either 27.5" or 28" with either 100 grain or 125 grain points or broadheads.  My experience with wood is very limited, and because I don't understand the medium, very frustrating. I bought a 100 PO shafts some years ago. Picked the straightest, sealed, fletched and even crested. They were ok but I was never satisfied with straightness. As a result, I don't do wood.

I'm more inclined to paper tune than bare shaft. However, I generally don't do either these days as Stu get's me really close and I use broadheads and field tips to fine tune.

Arrow flight, especially with broadheads at 25 yards is my "ready" cue.

[Al Dean]

Even though frustrating, when I can get my bareshafts and fletched shafts to fly perfectly together at 30-40 yds my confidence in my bow and my self goes through the roof.  Necessary?  Probably not but extremely satifying.

[AdamH]

Naw, been doing this long enough to know what works, and my "eyes" are fine ... Have Fun ...

[JohnV]

I think many bowhunters who do not bareshaft would be amazed to find out how poorly matched their arrows are to their bow. I recently tested some arrows that I thought were a good match for my bow and was quite suprised to find they were not close.  Might explain a few erratic shots here and there.  Big fletching tends to correct a lot of mistakes and can lead a person to thinking their arrows are well-matched to their bow.

[Night Wing]

Originally posted by JohnV:
I think many bowhunters who do not bareshaft would be amazed to find out how poorly matched their arrows are to their bow. I recently tested some arrows that I thought were a good match for my bow and was quite suprised to find they were not close.  Might explain a few erratic shots here and there.  Big fletching tends to correct a lot of mistakes and can lead a person to thinking their arrows are well-matched to their bow.

I don't bare shaft tune anymore. Below are my thoughts when using Stu's DSC program.

Speaking for myself and only for myself; when my arrows are flying like darts and both field points and broadheads, in the same grain weight, are hitting the same place on a target or a pine cone I'm aiming at, when the distance is 5, 10, 15 or 20 yards, this old adage comes to mind......"If it isn't broke, don't fix it". This is why I don't bare shaft tune anymore.

When using Stu's DSC program; if my arrows "wouldn't" be matched to the bow, the field tipped arrows and broadhead tipped arrows, in the same grain weights, "wouldn't" be hitting in the same spot at 5, 10, 15 and 20 yards. Shooting broadheads is the acid test. I don't take shots at live game over 20 yards so beyond 20 yards, does not apply to me.

For those who want to bare shaft tune their arrows to their bow, fine. But, bare shaft tuning is "no longer the sole and only way" to tune an arrow to a bow since the DSC program came along. I'm proof of that.

[SS Snuffer]

I shoot without fletch most of the time when I'm praticing! It not only tells you if your arrows are spined right and your nock point is set right it also checks your form. If you can shoot a good group without fletch, with fletch will be just that much better and if you can't, better check your FORM. Try it.

[xtrema312]

Broad head flight is critical, but I have seen some good designs fly just fine not tuned that well.  Bare shaft works fine also, but I have seen HFOC weak carbons fly to the correct spot and not be tuned well.  The way a bare shaft flies tells me more than where it hits.  Paper doesn't lie; it tells exactly what the arrow is doing in flight at any given distance.  

The calculator is great, but there is a great deal of difference between bows for just one variable.  For example, older versions of Stu's calculator would have told you all 3/16" cut past center recurves with the same strike plate thickness had the same spine requirement.  Current version shows that there is 5# difference between BW PCH AND PSA models and #10 difference between several different mfr. with same type bow, center cut, and strike plate thickness.  Thinks about the difference between an A@H ACS and a D shape LB with R/D limb design.  Both are R/D LB’s, but with very different performance and spine requirements.  Not every bow made is in the calculator yet.   Throw in your release and you can throw off the calculator a lot.  I like the calculator, but you still have to shoot to verify.  You should never just cut down arrows and set them all up based on the calculator.

[Joseph]

I am with Ryan on this one.  I did strip the feathers off an arrow once to see what all the hoopla was about and found out that it grouped right in with my other arrows, target points and broadheads mixed out to about 30 yards.  I may be lucky but I have never had a hard time getting arrows to fly good unless I am getting sloppy with my release.

[Night Wing]

If a person's release isn't good, when using the calculator, it will throw the calculator off. I will agree with that.

But, the same result will happen if a person's release slightly plucks the string and he/she doesn't realize it when bare shafting. The slightly bad release will throw bare shafting way off also.  

If someone is going to use the calculator, they need to adjust, not just point weight, but brace height as well.

In my situation, the calculator for me is the holy grail. Because I shoot low poundage bows with aluminum arrows and combined with my 30" draw length, I want 1 1/2" of clearance between the back of a very sharp broadhead and the knuckle on my left index finger that grips the bow below the shelf. This is why I don't measure clearance from the back of a broadhead to the riser's shelf. Thus, the reason why I shoot 32" BOP arrows.

The calculator is basically a virtual "what if" program. With the calculator, one can pick the length of arrow they want to shoot and then plug in different point weights to see what's feasible. This can't be done with bare shafting. With bare shafting, one has to have the actual arrow and shoot it.

In my case, I would never have considered a 2212 aluminum arrow with a 75 grain point weight shot out of both bows if I was bare shaft tuning. The calculator let me play around with a 2212 arrow without having to buy a half dozen 2212 shafts first.

The 75 grain point weight is the lowest point weight threshold I can go with because there are 3 blade 75 grain broadheads out there and Muzzy has one I like.

There is one other lower spined full length shaft that comes in a 32" length or more. That is a 2013. But; in order to shoot the 2013 in a 32" length, with the calculator, I would need a 40 grain point weight with my 37# and 42# bows. This wouldn't work for me because there are no 40 grain broadheads.

The calculator will give someone the same results as bare shaft tuning, but that is predicated on the correct info being put in all the boxes in the calculator. One can't have the wrong info and expect a very good result.

In closing, I don't know how to do a screen capture shot, but I will put up my stats with my 42# recurve using the calculator with a 2212 arrow. Keep in mind, I weigh all the component parts of an arrow with a balance beam scale. If you have the calculator on your computer, plug in the numbers below.

Box #1: Arrow Shaft Size, 2212 X7 Arrow
Box #2: BOP Length, 32"
Box #3: Point Weight, 75 Grains
Box #4: Insert Weight, 31 Grains
Box #5: Footing, NO
Box #6: Nock End Weight, 22 Grains
Box #7: Fletching, 3 x 5"
Box #8: Bow Type, Generic Recurve (Blacktail not listed)
Box #9: Rated Weight, 42#
Box #10: Rated Draw, 30"
Box #11: Your (My) Draw, 30"
Box #12: Center Cut/Strike Plate Position, (-1/16)
Box #13: String Material Type, Fast Fight 12 Strand
Box #14: Personal Form Factor, (0)

If you run the numbers, the arrow dynamic spine and arrow spine are both 57#. What isn't seen is the brace height adjustment (7 7/8") which enables me to shoot the 2212 with a 75 grain point weight.

[Don Stokes]

I guess I'm just a hands-on kind of guy, but I'd much rather shoot a range of bare shafts and see what works in the real world, than to try to arrive at what MIGHT work with mathematics. Either way you actually have to shoot some arrows. If I've seen a bare shaft shoot straight into the target, I KNOW that my finished arrows will work.

If you have poor form or release, how will you ever know if you've gotten to the right place? Without good form and release, broadheads are not likely to shoot well for you, whether the spine is right or not. A person should work on form and release BEFORE trying to fine-tune arrows to the bow, whatever method is ultimately used. Once the basics are taken care of, then you can learn something about tuning and decide which method works best for you.

As long as you end up with a skinned cat, it doesn't matter how you got the skin off.

[Bjorn]

I agree with Don, I'd much rather try a couple and see how they are flying than model on a computer or calculator. Bareshafting is so easy even a cave man could do it; and maybe did!  

[Flying Dutchman]

IMO Bear-shafting is great for carbon arrows, because they are very consistent. So I don't bareshaft with wood. For me is a great method to bareshaft with carbon arrows (till 30 yards at least, but beginning on 10), put the values in Stu's calculator and then find the same dynamic spine for wood. Then I try the fletched wooden arrows and see how the fly. Are the going where I want to? Ok, then they are all-right.

I shoot from 15 to 50 yards with them.
Consequent tooo much to the left or right? To high or low spinevalue. Consequent too high or low? Change nocking point hight.

No pattern at all??? Yoy'll have to work on your form!!!!!

All tuning-methods are not any use if your form isn't consequent.

But I must confess that for my bow and my form Stu is dead-on!

Just my five cents...

[Flying Dutchman]

mistake, did something wrong with editing

[jhg]

Bare shafting lets me find the nocking point in about 2 minutes. For a 3rd year rookie, thats priceless.

Joshua