Hybrid Bow?

[Flying Dutchman]

Rob has given an already good explanation. However, when uou shoot tournamants, you'll meet IFAA rules. Officially my Hybrid Longbow would be a recurve, according to their rules, because it has no exact D-shape when strung. Here are their (silly) rules regarding Longbows:

a. A one piece straight ended bow of any material, which when strung displays one continued unidirectional curve, which is measured as follows:
When the strung bow is placed with the bowstring in a vertical position, the angle as measured between the tangent of any point on the limb and an imaginary horizontal line must always decrease as this point is moved further away from the bow grip.
Where there is any doubt as to the continuing curve of the limb then a string-line laid from the end of the riser fade out to the commencement of the tip overlays (or if there are no overlays then the point at which the bow string is held in the nock groove) on the back of the strung bow shall show no gaps between the string line and the bow limb.
b. The tip reinforcing may not exceed 20mm in height, measured from the surface of the back of the bow limb and may not exceed 50mm in length, measured from the centre of the string groove towards the bow grip.
c. The bow may contain a window and an arrow shelf. The side of the window shall be slanted over the full length of the window and rounded off at the point where the window intersects with the top bow limb. The window cut may not exceed the centre of the bow.
d. The belly, bow grip, the window and the arrow shelf shall be free of any marks or blemishes that may be used as sighting aids.
e. Any additions to the bow for the purpose of stabilisation, levelling, draw-weight reduction, sighting and/or draw checking are not permitted
f. Only one nocking point shall be allowed on the string, which may be marked by either one or two nocking point locators. If resting nocks are used -such as ball nocks -only one locator may be used.
String silencers no closer than 30 cm above or below the nocking point are allowed.
g. Arrows shall be of wood, fletched with natural feather, and must be of the same length, fletch and pile, without regard for colour. The arrow must be free of any marks or blemishes that can be used as sighting aids. Nocks may be of any material and any weight of pile may be used.
h. The bow must be shot with the "Mediterranean" loose. In cases of physical deformity or handicap special dispensation shall be made.
i. Entries that do not comply with the above rules shall be classified in the recurve.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Flying Dutchman:
.. However, when you shoot tournamants, you'll meet IFAA rules. Officially my Hybrid Longbow would be a recurve, according to their rules, because it has no exact D-shape when strung....

the ifaa longbow competition rules are truly stupid.  

not because they wish to restrict longbows to those that brace to a "D" shape, or that they want participants to use only hill style or elb longbows, but it's because of the methodology they use to decide whether or not a longbow meets their rules definition.

since they only check a braced longbow, any braced mild or aggressive hybrid longbow that's "D" shaped is allowed.  that means that an aggressive hybrid longbow such as the 21st century 'edge' is allowed to compete in ifaa competitions.  and it has been allowed, and it has won the ifaa longbow championships.  

that's like having a volkswagon beetle drag race and someone shows up with a porsche engine in their bug.   :D  

i called them out on their longbow rules over 5 years ago and they ifaa did nothing whatsoever.  what a travesty.  what a dumb rule!

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Curveman:
I simply will not subscribe to the definition that states: "it's a "longbow" if the bowstring loops only sit in the limb nocks and do NOT touch any other part of the limbs."  Way too broad and frankly lazy a definition in my opinion unless of course it fit pretty well fit for an earlier time in our archery history. But with today's massive pistol grip risers and heavily R/D limbs? No. It's a hybrid-why can't we just call it what it is? The definition of hybrid is a cross between two or more traits etc.creating something new (gist). It doesn't by definition remain what it was if you "cross fertilize!" Does anyone call a mule a horse?! So calling it a longbow is a misnomer. I prefer the def they use in many of the European tourneys where the longbow in this case at least has to maintain a continuous "D" shape when strung and not be cut to center. That at least is a more exacting definition and far more fair for competition. Of course, they don't even call them "longbows" over there but "American Flatbows" if they even have a shelf but I'm fine with "longbow" over here. There are some "hybrids/longbows" where you have to dang near strain your eyes to tell it's not a recurve! I'm fine though if no one here shares my definition-it really is just an opinion/preference. Hybrids are GREAT bows-they just don't give ME the feeling of a longbow that I seek when I shoot one. Gotta have that "broomstick grip" of yore and a classic "D".  My favorite, funny, quote in this regard is: "Hybrids are for people who want to say they shoot a longbow without ever having to shoot a longbow!" Damn I wish I thought of that one!        Peace! My last post!

essentially, i agree.

which will mean never to use the word 'longbow' by itself.  

it's either 'hill style longbow' or 'elb longbow' or 'american flat longbow'.  meaning the longbow in question has backset, straight, or bellyset limbs, no more or less.  

all the rest - even if they brace to a "D" shape - are hybrid longbows.  which can also be classed as 'mild r/d longbow' (snaky at rest, "D" when braced) or 'aggressive r/d longbow' (shows tip reflex when braced).

or just call 'em all 'longbows', but understand the differences.    :D

[Red Beastmaster]

Most people in my area call all stickbows "longbows". When you correct them and try to explain you always get the same puzzled look.

I guess I make the same puzzled look when I see a recurve takedown riser with longbow limbs refered to as a longbow. Don't look like one to me. But, that's me.

I had been shooting my hybrid for quite awhile and had a growing desire to get a "real" longbow. You know, one of those classic D shaped, 68", thump your hand, old style bows without an ergonomically shaped grip. I bought one last winter and haven't put it down since. I forgot how much fun and how challenging they were to shoot.

They're all good as long as they don't have wheels...............except for those nasty looking metal riser bows!  

[Flying Dutchman]

I totally agree with Rob. Fox Triple Crown bows are another example. This bow has agressive R/D, but when strung a D-shape. And when I am not mistaken, this bow won several championships too.

Perhaps it is a good idea to put the original longbows (straight when unstrung and straight broomstick grip) in the historical class and put all the R/D and/or pistolgrip longbows in the "Flatbow class". There you go!

Fitaa rules in this aspect are rediculous: "now we have to make distinction between R/D longbows with a little more or a little less R/D, or no, wait, a bow with much more R/D, but which is build in such a way that the bow keeps it's D-shape when strung is a "real" longbow while a bow with less R/D but no real D-shape is not?"

Forgive me but I am lost here....

I shoot a Hybride because I like it. I shoot with wooden arrows with real feathers, my string doesn't touch the limbs when strung, I shoot split-finger, so I am always in the Longbow-class.
When people have a problem with that, my answer is simple:
- Okay, then the organization has to measure up all longbows first
- you have to put a jury by each archer to check if they are not string- or facewalking
- check all arrows

Most of the time they don't do that...      

When we have our national championship I am not there, because it is organized by an organisation who hasn't a clue what 3D shooting is about and apply IFAA rules, so by-by!I am shooting for having a good time, not for following stupid rules, made by those who never had a traditional bow in their hands    :mad:

[Curveman]

A "broomstick" handle and a continuos "D" when strung and not cut to center is my defining line to still acceptably call it a longbow; if even a "steathly one". To the left of it the "classic longbow" (like "Coke Classic.").        To the right of that line-it's a hybrid. To the right of the hybrid-a recurve! If it looks like a longbow it is a longbow. If it looks like a hybrid; it is a hybrid-not a longbow. There! I settled it!  Thor has spoken!   :D