FOC% on GrizzlyStiks?

[WoodSpringer]

I have some questions for you GrizzlyStik shooters.

1. What % of front of center (FOC) are you shooting at?

2. Alaskans what weight point adaptor and what weight point? FOC?

3. Safaris what weight point adaptor and what weight point? FOC?

I can't get below 30.18% FOC with my Safaris. My Safaris are 26 1/2 inches in length with a 75 grain brass insert, 26 grain aluminum point adaptor,125 grain point, and they are shot from a 70# recurve.

My arrows still fly leaning forward and they stick in the target like that as well regardless of string nock repositioning.

I don't want to add weight to the rear to compensate.

Just wondering.

[doctorbrady]

Woodspringer,
I can't tell you the exact FOC on my arrows, but I will give you the details.
I shoot Alaskans with the aluminum adapters and 200 grain heads with arrows cut to 28 1/2 inches from my 58# bow.
I shoot Safaris with brass adapters and 200 grain heads, cut to 28 1/2 inches from my 66# recurve and 70# longbow.

Both of these set ups were bareshaft tuned from my bows and fly exceptionally well.  In fact, my past experiences with bareshaft tuning always resulted in a low impacting (tail high) arrow at distances beyond 15 yards.  I was never able to work this out until the Grizzlysticks.  With the Grizzlysticks I actually got a bareshaft to shoot high (tail low) which I was easily able to tune out.  In the end, I was shooting bareshafts from each of my bows at 20 yards with excellent results.
I am currently shooting out to 30 yards in prepartation for Africa.  My experience is that with the Safaris at nearly 900 grains, I get some drop at 30+ yards, but it is not noticeable within that range (I shoot instinctive, not gap).  With the lighter Alaskans I can shoot anywhere within my comfort range without any perceiveable drop.

[WoodSpringer]

Very interesting Doctorbrady.

It looks like your Safari's with the 75 grain insert and a combined weight of 200 grains (the point and adaptor) at 28 1/2 inches, your balance point is probably at 8 3/4 inches. According to my calculations this would put your Safari arrows Front of Center at 38.5% which is very high.

My arrows fly fine except for the high tail on impact. This bothers me.

What I can't understand is how are GrizzlyStik shooters getting away with shooting a 30% to 45% Front of Center with these shafts.

Right from the start these shafts are front heavy to begin with since they have a bigger diameter in the front and taper down at the back. Couple that with their 75 grain brass inserts and a 200 grain point and adaptor combo and you end up with a high FOC.

Does FOC not matter with these shafts because of the their continuous taper?

JB

[doctorbrady]

Woodspringer,

Not being a great engineer or physicists, I can't answer your question specifically.  Many have touted a 12-13% FOC as "ideal."  However, the majority of carbon shooters I know routinely go way above that.  Frankly, I don't even THINK about it anymore, let along WORRY about it.  What I do know is that pushing the tip weight on these arrows hasn't hindered my ability to shoot them at all.  Are you getting a "tail high" kick with bareshafts or fletched arrows?  The tail high kick can often come from the release as much as from the arrow or bow itself.  Also a nock which is tight on the string can lead to the same effect.  My suggestion is to thoroughly go through OL Adcock's bareshaft tuning method and see if there is anything that you can adjust starting with the way that the nock fits on the string.  I have bareshafted arrows for years without ever doing it what I now consider the "right way."  You may find that some fine tuning of your set up will alleviate your problem.  I wish you the best of luck, and am happy to help out in any way if I can.  Brady

[Ray Hammond]

My AD Nitro Stingers weigh in at only 300 grains for the shaft, cap wrap, feathers, and nocks.

I use an aluminum shaft insert with screw in brass weights inside, a steel broadhead adapter and 160 grain grizzly to complete the arrow at 620 grains...thats a little over 50% FOC.

I shoot it out of a 61@28" Schafer Silvertip and they shoot just great. I took a black bear with one last week...it did not pass through because it hit the opposite shoulder and then skipped around it to exit through the tendons at the rear of the front off side shoulder...but it did the job, left a magnificent blood trail for a bear, and he expired within 15 yards of the stand.

Shot placement of course was paramount to that, as well as head sharpness...but the arrows fly very well out of the bow and that's all you want.

[doctorbrady]

Congrats on the bear Ray.

[Doc Nock]

WS,

Tried to PM you and somehow wrote to docbrady instead.

To recap, I've been reading everything I can on carbons for years..like the idea of removing another variable in shaft material to near zero.

Seems some of the engineering types claim in writings that carbon needs to be evaluated by "dynamic spine" vs. normal shaft's "static spine". If memory serves, I believe that "dynamic spine" needs some sophisticated machinery to measure, not your ole spine tester machine...

Bottom line, carbons are some other world critter when it comes to arrow savvy.  FOC is out the window...know many guys with modest (high 40's to low 50# draw) draw weigth bows shooting up to 350 gr. of FRONT weight between brass inserts, steel adapters and heavy broadheads... My arrows all come in around 600-610 gr. and my bows shoot around 50# +/- a few.

Had guys bare shaft my arrows out to 40 yards like on a wire with heavy front weight... amazing. (I tend to stick to 30 but have seen mine shot that far)  And the range of spine for same set up seems to be more flexible too.  

Go figure. Not for everyone. Just kinda like the idea of tinker once and then when you buy more, it's still the same.