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Author Topic: New guy in the dark with questions...  (Read 223 times)

Offline philg

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New guy in the dark with questions...
« on: August 18, 2011, 06:29:00 PM »
Hello all.  First I would like to say hello to everybody.  I've been haunting this site for a bit since my brother introduced me. Thanks for all the great info.  I do have questions though...

A friend gave me a Bear Bearcat recurve bow.  From what I can see it appears to be in good shape to shoot, but I am going to have it checked out by somebody who knows more than me.  It did not come with a string though.  What kind of string would you all suggest?  I want this bad boy to shoot as absolutely queitly as I can get it.  What all would I need to do?  

For arrows, it is a 45 pound bow.  What kind of arrows would you guys suggest to start with?  What spine strength?  I've been using carbon arrows on my compound, at they work great from that bow.  The Montana that I played with didn't like them so much.  So, I guess I'm wondering what would be a good place to start?

Thanks to everybody for the information.  This is a wonderful web forum, and I look forward to continue learning from all of you.

philg

Offline JamesKerr

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2011, 06:33:00 PM »
I would suggest a flemish string made from B50. As for arrows I would go with either a 2016 aluminum arrow or a carbon arrow with a spine of .500.
James Kerr

Offline mscampbell75

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2011, 06:42:00 PM »
Hello and welcome!

For strings check out the Trad Gang Sponsor List.  There are a couple of different guys who could help you out.  Just get in touch with them and let them know what you have and the will hook you up with exaclty what you need.

 http://www.bowmaker.net/index2.htm

Here is a site that I refer to alot and it answered alot of initial questions that I had.

To quiet down the bow.  Play around with brace hieght, add some string silencers (cat wiskers, bow hush, etc.) and shoot a heavy arrow.  At least 10gr/in of draw weight,  ex. 45lb @ 28in would be 450 grain arrow.  Assumming you are a 28" draw legnth.

I could help you aut with alluminuim as thats what I use.   1916 or 2016 depending on your draw legnth and how long you want your arrows and what kind of arrow point wieght you want.  For carbons or wood arrows, there are some poeple on TG that will be spot on.

Start with your string and go from there.  

Good Luck and have fun  :archer2:
Psalm 86:11   Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.

Black Creek Banshee T/D  49#@28
Iron Mountain R/D Longbow  53#@28
70's Bear Kodiak Hunter 45#@28

Offline JDunlap

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2011, 06:49:00 PM »
I have gone back and forth between carbons and aluminum's and am now back to carbons; That weight of bow would call for something like the easton epic 600 carbon or the Gold Tip 1535. However, I would go with something stiffer and add tip weight. That way you will have a heavier arrow and thus a quieter bow. You might try the Beman MFX Classics in say a 500 and put 150 to 175 grains up front. I have been shooting the Classics for the first time and I am very impressed with the way they fly -- probably better than anything I've tried.
As far as string, I would recommend contacting tradganger who goes by Oliver Stacey. He makes and sells top quality strings and can tell you what you need for that bow.
Hope this will help get you started in the right direction. blessings to you!
Sandy Biles Scorpion TD RC; 54@28
RER XR Static Tip RC; 50@28
JC Optimus riser/Uukha EX1EVO2 [email protected]

Offline Shawn Leonard

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 07:20:00 PM »
You need nothing stiffer than a .600 spine and you will still need to add quite a bit of point weight. If you draw 28" keep them long like 30"s and add 175 to 200 grains of point weight and cut back a quarter inch at a time and check flight. I bet 29"s and 190 grains up front will be about on the money but you must experiment a bit. Shawn
Shawn

Offline wtpops

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2011, 11:27:00 PM »
This is JMO, you might want to stick to aluminum to start out with, they are not as strong as carbon but easier to learn how to tune a bow/arrow combo with. Carbons can be tricky. 1916 or 2016 depending on tip weight should get you close to a starting point.
TGMM Family of the Bow
"OVERTHINKING" The art of creating problems that weren't even there!

Online 4dogs

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2011, 11:59:00 PM »
Have you checked out Robs info box, if not up top of this forum on  the right side is a yellow box entitled " trad archery for bowhunters"...loaded with good info. Have fun!   :campfire:
>>>---TGMM, Family of the Bow--->

Offline JimL

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2011, 03:31:00 PM »
Welcome to the wonderful world of trad.  You came to the right place.
...by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.   Col  1:20

Offline LimBender

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2011, 03:50:00 PM »
For a Bear (and many recurves), the actual string length should be about 3" less than the AMO on your bow.  You don't have many choices on an old bow - go with B50.

I'm gonna be playing with arrows and points on a 67 Kodiak Hunter this weekend (and hoping Shawn's recent carbon postings don't apply to me  :D ).

Have fun!
>>>---TGMM Family of the Bow--->

Shoot some Zippers and a Bear.

Offline philg

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2011, 04:10:00 PM »
Okay guys, thanks for all the great info.  Working on getting a Flemish string ordered.  

I am curious though.  A couple people have suggested having a heavy tip on the arrows when I have them made.  Why is that?  Im using a 125gr tip on my compound, why go to such a larger grain on a lighter bow?

Online Archie

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2011, 04:46:00 PM »
A heavier tip will quiet the bow and give better penetration.  And, when you have a higher proportion of weight at the front of the arrow than in the back, your FOC (look it up) is better, also helping penetration.  The correct combination of arrow weight & length, shaft stiffness, tip weight, arrow length, and the cut of your riser/shelf (to center, past center, etc.) is key to having your arrows end up going in a straight line.  Since you will have to figure this out, you might as well use a heavier tip weight to start with, for penetration's sake, and adjust the other variables around that, more or less.  You might still end up pushing your tip weight (+/- 25 grains or more) either way in the end.  I shoot a 48# longbow, and am very impressed with the way it shoots with 250 grain heads on it.  Quiet and hard-hitting.

Archie
Life is a whole lot easier when you just plow around the stump.

2006  64" Black Widow PMA
2009  66" Black Widow PLX
2023  56" Cascade Archery Whitetail Hawk
2023  52" Cascade Archery Golden Hawk Magnum

Offline philg

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2011, 05:51:00 PM »
Thanks Archie.  That actually really makes sense.  Definitely will look into the heavier tips.

Online Archie

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2011, 07:38:00 PM »
No problem.  The arrow shafts you select will all depend upon the spine (stiffness).  I would imagine that if you draw 28", and want to dabble with aluminums, you could try 2016s, 2018s or 2117s out.  The first two numbers speak of overall outside shaft diameter; the second two numbers are for wall thickness.  Therefore, a 2016 will be as big around as a 2018, but the 2018 will be stiffer, due to the thicker wall.  The 2117 will be stiffer yet.  There are charts available that will give you a lot of detail about shaft characteristics.  If you want a stiffer shaft to flex more upon release, leave it longer and/or put heavier tips on it.  If it's flexing too much, put lighter tips on it or else cut it down.  Use small increments, so not to go too short accidentally.  I have a 31" draw, so I have decided to leave my shafts full-length and just mess with the tip weight.  

If you take a complete arrow, minus the feathers, and shoot it, you will be able to see how a particular set up would fly without the feathers doing their job of correcting the flight.  An arrow that is too stiff will catch the riser and be directed into a trajectory that goes off toward your bow-hand side (left, for a right-handed shooter).  You will see this by watching it fly at about 20yards, as it will be pointing that direction.  If the shaft is too weak (flexible) at that particular setup, it will bend too much as it goes out of the bow, catching a little air resistance, and going off toward your release-hand side.  A properly-tuned arrow will flex as it leaves the bow, and will flex enough to clear the riser, but will properly recover instead of going crooked.  This is critical when you shoot broadheads, because they will want to catch air, and plane off to one side or the other.  This will affect the flight of that shaft, even with feathers on it.

This can get really complex, and some guys really get into it.  This explanation is pretty basic, Arrow Flight 101.  I just want to be able to shoot my bow(s) with the right arrows, so am not an expert by any means.  But all I've learned has been through this site, Traditional Bowhunter magazine, and the very helpful owner's manual DVD that Black Widow sent me when I bought a BW bow.  They have a whole section on how to achieve good arrow flight, and it made a big difference for me.

But before you can really tune for left/right (spine), you have to make sure your nock height is somewhat right.  If your arrows are banging the shelf as they go over it, it will make your arrow flight too inconsistent to tune well.  If you don't know how to do this, a search here on Tradgang will bring up past conversations that will explain it.

Archie
Life is a whole lot easier when you just plow around the stump.

2006  64" Black Widow PMA
2009  66" Black Widow PLX
2023  56" Cascade Archery Whitetail Hawk
2023  52" Cascade Archery Golden Hawk Magnum

Offline BRITTMAN

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2011, 08:00:00 PM »
I agree with others about sticking with aluminum for now much easier to get started with . For 45lbs I would use 2016 cut to 30in with 145 point or 1916 cut to 29in. with 125 point if your draw length is 28 in.
" Live long and prosper "

Offline philg

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2011, 08:44:00 PM »
Wow Arch.  Thanks man.  Im thinking Im gonna start with a middle of the road weight and a heavy tip and go from there.

Online Archie

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2011, 08:48:00 PM »
Phil, where are you in IL?
Life is a whole lot easier when you just plow around the stump.

2006  64" Black Widow PMA
2009  66" Black Widow PLX
2023  56" Cascade Archery Whitetail Hawk
2023  52" Cascade Archery Golden Hawk Magnum

Offline longbow fanatic 1

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2011, 09:01:00 PM »
Phil,

I have a 45lb recurve and a 49 lb longbow. Both bows love the 2016 aluminum arrows. With a 125-150 gr. broadhead, your bow should shoot great. I can't speak to carbon, as I gave us carbon arrows when I gave up wheelie bows.

Good luck and welcome!!

Dennis

Offline philg

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Re: New guy in the dark with questions...
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2011, 11:58:00 PM »
Thanks Dennis.  Im kind of thinking along those lines, just want to get to the shop to visualize some of this stuff.  I've been shooting a wheelie bow with carbon arrows to this point.  Wanting to treat this bow right.

Archie, Im in Troy, Illinois.  Its around Edwardsville, Glen Carbon area.

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