hunters only

[allek81]

just a question for the hunters out there im from australia and trad doesnt seem to be very big here my pro shop has a few trad bows in the corner and about 5000 compound bows alot you guys seem to be shooting really heavy up front 200 grians and over i just wanna know do you guys use this same set up for hunting the most common tip i see in australia is 125 grians field and broadhead

thanks

[Benny Nganabbarru]

G'day Allek,

Most tradbow hunters don't go to the mainstream archery shops for their equipment, at least here in Australia. They simply don't cater for us. I have nearly always used American suppliers who specialise only in traditional bowhunting, purchasing online. The sponsors here will look-after you. In particular, 3RiversArchery is excellent.

Let me know if you have any questions. I'm happy to help.

Cheers,

Ben

[slivrslingr]

Yeah, a lot of trad shooters are using heavier points and heavier arrows in general.  The name of the game in hunting is penetration, penetration can be had by using light arrows at high speed or heavier arrows at slower speed.  Since trad bows don't produce the same speed (slower) as a wheelie bow (faster), we make up for the slower speed by shooting heavier arrows.  Heavier arrows have more momentum therefore still penetrate well.  A total arrow weight of 10 grains per pound draw weight (ie. a 500 grain arrow for a 50 pound bow) is the generally accepted rule of thumb for trad shooters.

As an aside, to get the absolute best penetration on game, you must shoot an arrow that is tuned optimally to you and your bow and have shaving sharp broadheads.

Hope this helps.

[allek81]

Thanks ben ill be in touch soon mate

[Night Wing]

Originally posted by slivrslingr:
A total arrow weight of 10 grains per inch per pound draw weight (ie. a 500 grain arrow for a 50 pound bow) is the generally accepted rule of thumb for trad shooters

I think you've got a typo. It's not "grains per inch (GPI). I think you meant to say "grains per pound" (GPP).

[katman]

Allek, Yes I use from 200-300 grain broadheads depending on setup and game after. Heavy front end weight with carbons lets you increase overall arrow weight and raise foc, both good for hunting.

[Mudd]

How much better of a welcome could anyone ask for?

You asked and got great advice from some great folks and a couple of them from your own country too!

Welcome to the tradgang family Allek!!!!

God bless,Mudd

[David Mitchell]

allek81, until fairly recent years the most common weight for broadheads was 125-160 grains.  The older bowhunters (of which I guess I would be one) shot every conceiveable type of animal with "normal" arrows and tips.  Fred Bear became famous for his hunts all over the world shooting large game with his Razorheads that weigh about 125 grains.  I doubt his arrows would have qualified for the extreme forward of center thing that seems to be gripping the trad community these days.  

Fred said that a hunting arrow should weigh approximately 9 grains for every pound of bow weight.  I read a letter that Howard Hill sent to the game commission of one state who had asked him for advice on archery gear for hunting.  As I recall he said that in his experience a bow of 45# draw weight shooting an arrow of 450 grains would take any game in North America--proper shot placement being a given.  It seems these days that nobody trusts those parameters any more!    :rolleyes:    I'm sure that others will have a difference of opinion--that's what is great about freedom!  However, I still like to use those early pioneers of our sport to guide my choices--they did it all.

Best to you...........Dave    

[daniel boon]

Allek
I like to have around 250 up front in both field tips and broadheads, so I put in a 100gr insert,and 145gr head (or whatever weight head you want to tune your arrow to) You can also get 50gr inserts.
Ben will set you straight.

[awbowman]

No doubt a broad range of 125 grain heads are easier to come by and relatively inexpensive compared to the specialized heavier heads.  If you want heavier, you can increase up front weight by using carbon arrows with 50-100 grain brass inserts.

You can also glue in steel adapters to glue on heads and use them in carbons to get heavy up front arrows.

For what it's worth, when I started trad hunting a couple of years ago, I read a lot and the trend was heavy arrows.  I said "well if heavy is good, heavier is better".  I'm now thinking 9-10 gpp and super sharp BH is plenty for most game, unless you are hunting BIG NASTY ones in Aussy land.

[WESTBROOK]

There are lots of Trad options, but you wont find them at the big sporting store. The TradGang sponsors can set you up with about any combo you want.

As David Mitchell said, they have been killing animal with 125-160 heads for a loooong time. The real heavy front end weights have proven benficial on larger animals when penetration realy becomes an issue.

Eric

[KSdan]

David M- I think you MAY be missing a KEY piece to the discussion possibly:  those early men may have had 125 gr heads- but they had very heavy arrows made of wood and solid fiberglass when it came along. They were even using arrows footed with heavy hardwood on cedar too.  So I think they were attempting to accomplish the same thing we are.  The higher FOC we are shooting is simply making the most of the hollow, lightwt. shaft materials we are using.

I'll tell you what- once I tried the heavier FOC on a bare-shafted carbon and watched in launch perfect easily past 30 yds with no fletching I was convinced.  I could never do that with the light FOC- no matter how heavy the overall arrow wt.  

I have really been impressed with a 550gr arrow with 250 gr up front, 31" power stroke, out of 50+# bows.  Flat trajectory yet perfect arrow flight and great penetration.  Seems like the best of all worlds.

Just 2C in the conversation

Dan- down "under" in Kansas!

[Smithhammer]

Allek - Welcome! As you'll notice, there's a spectrum of opinion on the arrow weight question. At the end of the day, lots of different things may work, but you'll have to draw your own conclusions about what works best for you and the species you hunt.

As has been said here many times before - yes, lots of animals have been killed with 125 gr. heads, but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible to do better. Just because it's "traditional" doesn't mean that there still aren't ways we can potentially continue to explore and improve. With all due respect to Mr. Bear, I'm not going to let what he did define what I choose to do, and I don't think he would have wanted it any other way. Tradition isn't the worship of ashes...

Increasing FOC and general arrow weight doesn't just provide improved performance on really big game, though this is a common misconception (as is the suggestion that those who advocate for higher arrow weight don't still prioritize good arrow placement). It can help any time that a shot is less than perfect, hits bone, etc. Of course we all want to strive for perfect arrow placement, but there are a lot of variables with any shot, and, as with many other things in the real world, what we strive for and what actually happens doesn't always conveniently coincide. Even Howard Hill and Fred Bear made bad shots now and then.

Keep in mind that, with comparisons to what "Fred Bear used to shoot," that he was also often shooting a #65 bow, and Hill was often shooting significant higher than that. Yes, they may have shot lighter heads, but with heavy bows. Properly increasing your arrow weight and FOC can allow for the same effectiveness (or even better) with a lighter draw weight, and why pull more than you need to?

In my opinion, speed isn't a replacement for momentum, just one part of the equation. I think that even a lot of compound shooters with the fastest bows on the market would still do well to pay attention to more than just outright speed.

For a good explanation of the benefits of increasing FOC, check this out:

              http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Three-Darts-W13.aspx              

And this:

              http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Ashby-On-Momentum-Kinetic-Energy-Arrow-Penetration-W19.aspx

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Welcome to Tradgang! As others have stated, heavy arrows penetrate better than light arrows provided they are both tuned properly and shot from the same bow. I shoot front heavy arrows that are roughly 12 gpp because I like to use a big wide broad head to cut a bigger gash through my prey.     Lighter arrows and broad heads will do the job well but there is a smaller margin for error in the shot and setup, especially for animals with heavy bones.

[slivrslingr]

Originally posted by Night Wing:
 

Originally posted by slivrslingr:
A total arrow weight of 10 grains per inch per pound draw weight (ie. a 500 grain arrow for a 50 pound bow) is the generally accepted rule of thumb for trad shooters

I think you've got a typo. It's not "grains per inch (GPI). I think you meant to say "grains per pound" (GPP). [/b]

Fixed it, thanks for pointing that out.

[katman]

Allek, just so you know a high foc arrow can be had but keeping overall weight down thanks to the lighter carbon shafts. An example is one of my setups, a 50# bow shooting a 479gr total arrow weight (9.5gpp) and sporting a 200gr broadhead.

I shoot 250gr up front on my carbon arrows.... a 150gr brass insert and a 150gr point/broadhead. I used to shoot aluminum arrows that were right at 10gpp with "normal" FOC. I switched to carbon arrows that are right at 10gpp but with a much higher FOC. The higher FOC arrows far out perform the lower FOC arrows as far as penetration goes. I get far more complete passthroughs with the higher FOC arrows.

  I live in the States but there are not hardly any archery shops over here that have much of a trad supply selection either. I have to order most of what I need. 3Rivers Archery is a great place to order just about everything from (I do not know what it would cost to ship stuff to Australia though).

On a side note, I will be hunting in Australia from March 20th thru April 10th out of Brisbane and can't wait for the adventure to begin.

Bisch