Stupid New Guy Question On Hand Shock

[eminart]

Excuse me, I am new to longbows.

But, I've always read and heard a lot about hand shock with longbows. My question is this, if you're not gripping the bow, how can there be hand shock? I come from a compound background and I can remember shooting some very radical cam bows that had quite a thump to them. I understand compounds are a lot heavier, but I can remember some bows, especially some of the lighter weight High Country compounds when they first got crazy with the cams, that would jump out of your hands. The only thing that kept me from dropping them was my bow sling and the fact that I kept a couple of fingers loosely around the grip. But there was never any discomfort - it just felt like somebody tossed a softball into my waiting fingers.

So, what am I missing with longbows? Is there some kind of difference?

[maineac]

When I have experienced it I am reminded of hitting a rock when using a metal rod or johnson bar to start a hole.  It is more of a harsh vibration.  Another analogy might be hitting a tennis ball or rock with a wooden baseball bat.  The tennis ball produces so little recoil it can't really be felt though the bat, but a big ol' rock will make my arms vibrate (or at least that is how I remember).

[Flying Dutchman]

Handshock.... its like women.... it varies a lot  

Now, not all longbows do have a handshock. It is also important to define what you consider a longbow...
A real longbow is not cut to center and has round limbs, like the ancient English longbows. For me that is. They have a handshock that will ratlle your tooth out of your cheek and you will feel the shock leaving trough your feet in the earth....
Nevertheless there are people who will be persistance in saying those bows have NO handshock at all.

Howard Hill bows... they are worshipped by tons of archers. I say they have a handshock.... but most of the Hill fans will say they don't have any, you are holding the bow in the wrong way...

Modern hybrids: no handshock at all and very fast... they really smoke an arrow and are dead in the hand. That's my cup of thea...

I never cared for handshock, because I shoot them all. Even horsebows, After a few shots I don't feel the handshock anymore.

You are right, it doesn't matter!

[eminart]

Thanks guys, but I guess what I'm wondering is, how is the shock transmitted to your hand if you're not gripping the bow?

If you hit that rock with a tennis racket, but the racket is just balanced in your hand, it won't vibrate your arm, will it?

[Flying Dutchman]

It WILL vibrate your arm and you WILL feel it in your shoulder! When I shot my dead-silent hybrid and a shooth a real long- or horsebow, I really feel that handshock coming from my bow-hand and transporting the waves to my shoulder.

But then again: after a few shots it seems to vanish. I am not sure if you get used to it or if you change something in your technique. If the latter is the case, this is done from the unconscious.

[eminart]

Originally posted by Flying Dutchman:
It WILL vibrate your arm and you WILL feel it in your shoulder! When I shot my dead-silent hybrid and a shooth a real long- or horsebow, I really feel that handshock coming from my bow-hand and transporting the waves to my shoulder.

But then again: after a few shots it seems to vanish. I am not sure if you get used to it or if you change something in your technique. If the latter is the case, this is done from the unconscious.

I'm not questioning that it happens. Just trying to understand how. I'm probably over thinking it.  

[Flying Dutchman]

I think you have to experience it. Its like something explodes in your hand, no matter how you hold it. The shockwaves are transported trough your arm. That's all I can say.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by eminart:
Thanks guys, but I guess what I'm wondering is, how is the shock transmitted to your hand if you're not gripping the bow?

If you hit that rock with a tennis racket, but the racket is just balanced in your hand, it won't vibrate your arm, will it?

if you want a technical detailed answer it would take a bit of typing... but the short veraion is this.... no mater what type of bow you are shooting the hand shock that is felt is primarily caused by

1) The limbs not stopping at the same time
2) The preload or tension of the string at brace, height is not tight enough to top the limbs clean.
3) the archer is not applying the pressure on the grip in direct proportion to how the limbs are balanced. HH bows you heel down and shoot with a broken arm to regulate this. if you stiff arm those bows you'll end up picking your dentures out of the dirt. once you get it down they are fine.
4) even in finely balanced recurve limbs, or some of the more radical R/D long bow hybrids, there is a thing called "Limb bulge" that will transfer vibration to the riser too. This is when the tips are stopping clean, but the working portion of the limb, or center of the limb continues to osculate.
the term used for this is "Vertical instability"

[eminart]

After reading the replies and thinking some more, I believe we may need to rename it "bow shock" instead of "hand shock."

[Flying Dutchman]

Whatever makes your boat float, or should i say makes your hand shock?"  

[eminart]

Originally posted by Flying Dutchman:
Whatever makes your boat float, or should i say makes your hand shock?"    

It would be less confusing the the simple-minded such as myself.

[DannyBows]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'not gripping the bow', unless you are relating it to how you shoot a compound.

You will have to get a firm grip on a longbow. If you hold it lightly with the index and ring finger only, like a compound or even some recurves, you're gonna get some vibrations or 'handshock'. You'll feel it in your wrist and even your elbow.

Here's a couple links to threads that discuss how to grip a longbow.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=112306#000009

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=109184#000013

[mongoose]

What DannyBows said..You grip a longbow totally different than a wheel bow.      

[reddogge]

To me, a lifetime recurve shooter shooting a longbow of any make delivers a thump to the hand and bow arm. I wouldn't classify it as particularly painful, just different from the feel of shooting a recurve.

[Orion]

emiart:  You're correct that a light grip greatly diminishes felt hand/bow shock.  As others have pointed out, a heavy riser (most recurves), fast flight string, heavy arrows, etc. all help to reduce/dissipate the amount of excess limb energy that is transferred from the limbs to the riser to the bow hand. So does a light grip.  I've been shooting sticks for more than 50 years, and never felt the need to put a death grip on the handle, and that includes Hill bows.  I don't hold the bow with thumb and forefinger, but just gently rest it in the web of my hand and wrap my fingers loosely around the riser.  Folks have different sensitivities to hand shock, of course, but I've found very few bows over the years (and I've shot a ton of them) that didn't behave nicely when gripped lightly.

[PaddyMac]

I just got my first longbow and there is definitely a different feel to it than my recurve. What I'm feeling I wouldn't use the word "shock" to describe. It just feels quicker. Sometimes I notice the pinky, ring and middle fingers on my bow hand ache. (Of course, it's a new bow so I'm shooting it every minute I'm not sleeping, working or eating, which could have something to do with that.) I will say that it is way less forgiving to sloppy form than my recurve.