Super Ghost bareshaft tuning issues (vids up)

[khardrunner]

By the way...thanks to the wife for the video and to the nearly 2 yeard old daughter for the distractions... and handing me arrows :-)

[Looper]

Good deal. I think you're finding that your index finger is the culprit. Take some slow shots, and try to hold the draw for a few seconds. While at full draw, raise and lower your elbow slightly. You'll be able to see how that forces your index finger into the top of the shaft. If the force is enough, it will actually bend shaft.

There will be a certain elbow height that will be just right, where you'll be pulling in a direct line with the arrow shaft.

[Orion]

Yep  There's nothing wrong with your overall form.  Very good, in fact.  Of course, we can't see the tension you put on the string with each individual finger, but uneven tension can cause vertical torque, and that can cause the arrow to porpoise out of the bow.  However, if I understand your previous posts correctly, porpoising wasn't the problem, but rather, the arrow diving at about 15 to20 yards.

If it's not porpoising out of the bow, but still diving at 15-20 yards, then finger pressure on the string isn't the problem.  If the arrow  is is porpoising out of the bow, then vertical torgue and/or nock point is the problem

[Looper]

That's true with a fletched shaft, but a bareshaft won't porpoise. A porpoise occurs when the fletching tries to bring the shaft back in line. Without the fletching, the shaft will just stay crooked in flight. I'd bet that he did have porpoising with fletched shafts before he adjusted his string grip.

Besides, he did say that he fixed the problem by adjusting his finger tension. That shows where the problem is right there.

[Looper]

Let me add, too, that a couple of years ago, I did some pretty extensive tests to see what my arrow flight would look like if I did things wrong. Things like having my elbow too high, or have a tense string hand, or torquing my bow, etc. I took a perfectly tuned shaft, a video camera, and a make a ton of shots with both fletched and bare shafts.

What Kyle was experiencing initially was exactly what happened to me when I had too high of an elbow and was torquing the arrow with my index finger. Bareshafts would take a serious nosedive and fletched shafts would porpoise like crazy. It was a very similar flight to having a high nock point, or to having one too low, where the shaft was hitting the shelf.

[overbo]

What I see,is at fulldraw,you are leaning back.Clean that up and start again w/ your tunning.

[khardrunner]

I did see the lean as well, and I'll work on that.

I don't think my elbow is too high, please look at the video and correct me if I am wrong.

I do think I was pulling with too much index finger. Add that to the fact that I am pinching a bit at full draw with this 62" bow and I think that is the main problem. I'll shoot more today to confirm that.

The arrow WAS porposing with feathers, though at this point it seems better. We will see.

[cahaba]

Are your nocks to tight/loose?

[khardrunner]

I think they might be a bit tight

[Tom Anderson]

Originally posted by cahaba:
Are your nocks to tight/loose?

Bingo!  I was just gonna ask the same question.
A too-tight nock will cause all sorts of grief.

[Tom Anderson]

Ahah!  I just figured it out.  Khard is shooting a left-handed bow.....that causes all sorts of troubles in the northern hemisphere.  :D  
Travel south of the equator and report back.

[khardrunner]

haha thanks but I am 3 miles from the mason-dixon line and I refuse to move further south!

My dad lives in SC and my brother in NC. My little sister is in Ar. I don't know what happened there!

I sanded some nocks to a looser fit and I found that there is still a problem (though not as pronounced) as with the tight nocks if I am not REALLY careful with my index finger.

[kat]

I don't think it has been mentioned so far; so, you might try a nock above and below. Is it possible that your arrow is not staying tight to your string nock?

[Tom Anderson]

Originally posted by kat:
I don't think it has been mentioned so far; so, you might try a nock above and below. Is it possible that your arrow is not staying tight to your string nock?

Yep, that's a good suggestion too!

[khardrunner]

I started with double nocking points and now have moved to single below the arrow. I usually shoot this way so the arrow cannot slide down the string.

[Looper]

Your elbow may not be too high, but we're talking about a very small amount of difference between too high and just right. At any rate, pull your bow to full draw and move your elbow slightly up and down. You can see how that affects the pressure your index finger places on the string.

There are a couple of other things to consider, too. I found that an upper nock point gives me a little clearance between the arrow and my index finger. Tie one on and see if that helps. I used to use one nock below and did indeed find that way was more sensitive to index finger pressure.

Another thing to look out for is your shooting glove. If the seam of the finger stall is on the side of your finger, that effectively widens your finger and cause pressure on the shaft. I stopped using Damascus gloves because of that.

Anyway, you'll get it worked out.

[khardrunner]

Thanks for the ideas Cheney!