Howard Hill movie question.

When talking about the video of Howard shooting the Buffalo from horseback Howard tried that sequence many times, and he admits that he could not ride well enough to shoot the animal from a horse at full gallop so they monkeyed the film and did a marvelous job!

I have never heard that one, before.  Where did this get revealed? Black and white film of that era and the splicing techniques of the day would make it nearly impossible.

[toddster]

This topic always gets out of control, because people cann't put themselves in the times.Do you think other bowhunting and safarai movie's didn't do the following;  Do you really think all the horses in the western's was unhurt?  Do you think that all the animals used in movie's was treated nicely?  Do you think that other animals was lured in from being kept on edge of starvation?  Like now a days, is baiting legal?  If you put out deer lure food or scent is that legal or ethical?  If you make a bad shot on an animal and give up the trail in 3 or 4 hours is that ethically fine?  Lets stop bickering about this, because all we will do is get worked up and upset and divide a camp of thought.  None of us would do these things today and/or are more ethical than our other Archery brothers.  So let us accept the bad things from our history and learn from them and move on.

[SCATTERSHOT]

Come on, guys, give the old timers a break. What was normal in the past is taboo in our more "enlightened" society. Why, I can,t remember the last public flogging in this country. Boiling in oil has fallen into disfavor, too, although I might be in favor of restoring it for politicians.

The films were entertaining, and state of the art for the time.

You can't judge people of days gone by by our mores today.

[Butch Speer]

Got to agree with Toddster & Scattershot. It was decades past.

[yukon chuck]

This is interesting to me. Many have jumped on one side or another, and are ready for a fight. As I said in my post, I wasn't looking to debate wrong or right, or judge. I was curious to know if Hill or anybody associated with the movie might have ever talked about how they went about filming what they filmed, and the process and thinking behind it all. A lot of input here but I was hoping some of the hardcore Hill buffs could point to comments made or written by Howard.
I didn't realize this is apparently a scab I shouldn't have picked at. In hindsight, I guess I should have realized.
My apologies.

[Dodger]

Thanks Nate. I have been meaning to get myself a copy of Craig's book and will order one soon.

Pavan, if I recall correctly, Peter Stecher touched upon this subject in his book Legends In Archery.

Yukon Chuck, whilst I am a neophyte Hill guy myself, I do not think you have anything to apologise for.

[Ben Maher]

Yukon, mate no apologies necessary !
As a bit of a Hill buff , ditto Swinehart etc I have never read anything stated by Hill re the "tether" ...
Bill Negley writes interestingly on it ... also covering Swinehart's elephants but again there are differing stories there too ......

Anywhoo ... Swinehart is still Imho , the coolest dude in modern archery ......

[Claymore]

I agree Ben. That photo of Swinehart facing off with the Cape Buffalo is the greatest in archery.

[SCATTERSHOT]

I'd love to see that pic. Can you post it here?

[jeff w]

Some things just can not be brought up without a debate breaking out--I think this would be one of the obvious ones.

Different times-different way of thinking. Just a heads-up;   Pope and Young took long shots, the Tompson brothers shot egrets and herons, and native Americans drove herds of bison over cliffs.

[lpcjon2]

Let him rest in peace, you cant change what they did back then. its no different in today's modern filming, its about the money and the return.If he wanted the financial backing then he had to do some of it their way, just like today. I dont think many movies are at all the real deal its entertainment(then and now). I can say I will never hunt Oregon or Washington due to those Vampires living in that area.Sleep in peace Howard I liked the movie.JMHO

[cahaba]

Back then in thier way of thinking shooting that film the way they did was completely ethical.
Today we hold a different standard. It's called advancement. Now I admit some advancements are really a step backwards i.e. mechanical archery things. I believe if Mr. Hill had thought it was unethical he wouldn't have participated. He had alot to loose. As has been said i.e. a different time and a different way of thinking.

[sawtoothscream]

Yup many animals were tied up and i think I heard the elephant was knee capped with a rifle before hand. Not as fan of his videos and they are just so corny.

I am seeing quite a bit a unprovable speculation here. It is difficult enough to shoot an African animal, somehow thinking that it is so easy to snare so many of them is mind boggling. I am waiting for someone to say that Hill and Ned Frost snared the animals that were shot in The Last Wilderness.

[Grey Taylor]

Originally posted by lpcjon2:
I dont think many movies are at all the real deal its entertainment(then and now).

Now there is a good thought.
I see way too many people willing to get their history from tv and the movies. Neither is trustworthy for unbiased facts (or sometimes even biased facts!), and sometimes I'm even leary of PBS documentaries.
It's all about ratings number of viewers.

Guy

[Traxx]

Amen Guy!!!!!

[MikeNova]

If you watch the movie Grizzly! came out in the early 70"s their was a real dead skined deer used in the movie. That would never happen now. just a note at the end of the movie that says no animals were harmed in the filming of this movie.