Question for Kuiu wearers...

[Guru]

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Now that is colder I will be mostly wearing my oversized Guide Jacket and pants to allow the necessary  layering...they are in Vias and I'm 100% confident it's a great choice for the bare trees of late season.

In my opinion, for the hunting you are describing, ESPECIALLY the hog and turkey hunting...Verde would be the best choice.
Although I've had close encounters on the ground with turkeys and hogs in Vias and have mostly made out ok...but from now on it'll be Verde for hogs and turks.

I have a ton of other in-the-field pix wearing Vias if you'd like to see them.

[amar911]

Thanks Curt. Very helpful information and pictures. Mostly, I like knowing the reaction of the animals when they are looking at you. That's the ultimate test. Sounds like you have had similar experiences with both patterns. I have always thought that Verde would be better for turkeys, as you know. Interesting to hear your thoughts on hogs too.

Allan

[Kevin Dill]

Allan,

I'll preface this by saying that my opinions are my own, and I'm not surprised when guys don't agree with my thoughts. I know several very good hunters who own, wear and love Vias camo. They kill game quite easily while wearing it....so I'm in no way anti-Vias.

Many years ago I wore and experimented with high contrast camo such as Skyline, Predator and others....I'm talking 20+ years back. My experiences and observations taught me that they were very effective when used against the right background and lighting. Used incorrectly, they frankly stuck out. I recall an incident where I got 'picked' 3 times in one morning wearing new Predator Fall Brown. This happened in a stand where I'd not been looked-at before. After a few more episodes of being noticed, or barely escaping such...I rid myself of it entirely. I simply had no time to spend mixing and matching camo to specific settings. The Skyline camo I used to own was remarkable at 'hiding' a hunter in a barren winter tree, like a sycamore or maple. That same pattern was a sure formula for getting noticed if I wore it against any darker background. I felt like a snowman walking out of the darkening woods in late November. I learned that high contrast is a specialty camo for me...one pattern doesn't cover most situations.

I agree that h-c camo like Vias confuses the animal eye. They don't 'see' the hunter...even if they see the camo. That's my personal problem with h-c camo at close range. I've experienced animals noticing the contrasting camo, even though they might not 'see' the man. I don't imagine this...I've seen it in action. I've watched deer pay attention to it. I think the h-c camos make me more 'catchable' at extremely close range...especially if I'm moving with a bow or stalking in tight on an animal which hasn't yet looked my way. Used against the right background, h-c can make you almost invisible...or just the opposite if used incorrectly.

The reason I sold my Vias had nothing to do with a bad experience. I think KUIU has evolved quickly into one of the best garment suppliers on the planet. I bought my Vias in anticipation of using it in Alaska moose country. Much dark green spruce cover, and larger expanses of open light-colored areas. After seeing Vias in use there...and finding it easier to pick out than other patterns...I decided mine had to go. I don't expect anyone else to see it that way...and I would never try to convince anyone that my way is the best. I just won't wear a camo that I think will eventually cost me an opportunity. I have always preferred camo which is 'softer' to the eye and more blending in its nature.

I haven't worn my Verde for deer hunting, nor will I. KUIU is ultralight gear and I didn't buy it with any thoughts of using it in Ohio. I'll only ever wear it on active hunts away from home. I'm not too surprised that guys are buying KUIU for deer and turkey hunting...but I have no plans to use mine that way. I do think the Verde pattern of 'macro on micro' (and with less overall contrast) is a far more versatile approach to camo. I also believe it will perform extremely effectively at the ultra-close ranges I enjoy. I'm watching KUIU's marketing and sales of both Vias and Verde....and I wonder if Verde is gaining ground? There is no doubt that Verde is receiving the lion's share of marketing effort and development currently. Time will tell the story.

KD

[Geezer]

Nice post.  I'm setting up a Christmas 'buy' for my wife and will go with the Vias camo (I'm a big fan of Predator).  My main purpose is to buy a shell for my 2013 Caribou hunt in AK.  I know the Chugach shell is perfect for fall rain but can it be used for other hunts in the lower 48's?

[4BTradArchery]

Curt- wow! Thanks for the pics.  I went hunting this weekend and spent some time looking around the ranch and after looking at your pics I think verde will be the better option. Our ranch has a lot of live oaks which stay green year around and that's where a majority of my stands are placed for deer and hogs. Kuiu should use your pics on the web for the Verde

Amar- after reading what you stated about the ASAT and turkeys, it really sunk in after Curts pics.

I spent some time on the kuiu blog and really looked at the pics Jason had posted in the verde while hunting and the verde did a good job out in the tundra.

I can't help but think that the 185 top in Verde would be just right for some spring time hogs or turkeys

[Dan Adair]

Eric lost me as a customer the day he decided to ship production to China, and not tell customers that had already ordered "made in N America" gear first.

Sorry, but its a deal breaker for me.

[amar911]

Kevin,

I use the Kuiu clothing for hunting in the mountains and moose country too, but it sure works well for deer hunting in Oklahoma and Texas much of the time too. I also wear a lot of Kuiu solid clothing on a daily basis -- like almost every day at work. Your points are all well taken, and I agree with many of them. When the environment is greener, the Verde is undoubtedly better most of the time. I also agree that the pattern itself in the Verde may be marginally better close up, but so are other patterns like Mountain Mimicry that have more subtle gradients in contrast. My biggest problem is lack of contrast at longer distances where animals are often looking more carefully before approaching. Once they are close, I have not noticed them being as concerned about figuring out what I am if I don't look like a human, but they don't like blobs. The Verde does represent a good compromise for both longer distances and close up, much of the same concept as the Gore Optifade. Both the Kuiu camo patterns are outstanding, in my opinion, with each having its own advantages. Like I said, there are times I prefer the Verde.

Allan

[PA stickbow boy]

I like the pattern and the gear, I just don't like the fact that most of it is just water resistant.  It's NOT waterproof similar to gor-tex. That is an awful steep price to pay for clothing that isn't Gor-tex or something similar. Personally I want to stay dry and NOT have to pack and extra rain suite.  Just my 2 cents.

[Kevin Dill]

I do agree that KUIU (and Sitka) is just fine for deer hunting...in my case whitetails from treestands. It simply wasn't designed with that type of hunting in mind...evidenced by this quote from the KUIU website: "I wanted to make the lightest and highest performing Mountain Hunting clothing possible."

I think they're doing that, and I'm glad guys are using it for deer. I don't use it for deer, primarily because I own plenty of whitetail gear which is warmer, quieter and much better suited to treestand sitting. Most of it is also much less expensive on a per-garment basis than KUIU or Sitka. I try to always use the best gear I can for every setting or hunt. For my active hunts, it is KUIU or Sitka currently. For sedentary stuff like sitting stands for whitetails, I'll usually be found in a much softer and totally silent fabric...not a softshell. Again, that's only me and I get that guys have their individual ways.

The old Mountain Mimicry is outstanding and I still use it. So is Optifade (both) and many other patterns which offer subtle shadings and transitions within the pattern. I'm big on Predator Deception and Cabela's Outfitter Camo patterns. I do think Verde could be the pattern which outsells Vias...but who really knows? I like Verde a lot, but it's not about the green in it...it's about the patterning of the camo and the shadings which are not nearly as sharply edged as Vias pattern.

Very good discussion...and nice to see an American entrepreneur building his brand.

KD

[amar911]

Kevin,

I like, own and routinely use all the camo patterns you mentioned, along with ASAT, Max 1 and some others. For the sage hills I often hunt in western Oklahoma, Max 1 is nearly ideal. I also used Max 1 shirts exclusively the two times I was hunting buffalo in Australia, and it was a great pattern for the area I hunted.

You're also right about not needing Kuiu or Sitka for whitetail hunting in the flatlands and about finding other clothing quieter or warmer than most of the Kuiu and Sitka clothing. On the other hand, my Sitka Kelvin jacket, vest and pants that are worn as mid-layers are very warm, comfortable, compactable and light-weight, making them very nice when traveling, especially by plane. I also have a Kuiu Spindrift jacket that is similar to the Kelvin jacket and some Core4Element prototype PrimaLoft insulated bibs that are similar to the Kelvin pants, except having the bib portion and an integrated outer shell. The outer clothing from Kuiu, Sitka and Core4element is not as quiet as the fleece or wool that I also have in my closet, but I personally have not had much of an issue with the noise factor unless I am walking around or happen to brush against a tree or some other fairly hard surface, and they don't tend to pick up vegetation like fleece, wool and other fuzzy clothes.

Sitka has developed several clothing items specifically aimed at the whitetail hunter in cold weather, and the Forest Optifade pattern was designed, in large part, to satisfy the demands of whitetail hunters, who comprise the majority of American big game hunters. Actually, my "mountain" clothing with PrimaLoft insulation is about as warm as anything else I have, and I have already paid for it, so I don't mind using it for flatland hunting too. But I also use other less expensive clothing for whitetail hunting, like you do, and those clothes work very well too -- sometimes significantly better in certain conditions.

Heck, I have more clothes for hunting than most people have for all their clothes combined!     :D   It usually takes me a long time to get my gear ready for a hunt, not because I'm trying to get everything packed, but because I'm trying to decide what are the fewest items I need that are best for the conditions I will probably encounter.

Allan