Bitz/fletching question - need some help

[slowbowjoe]

Still new to fletching my on arrows, and having some issues with feather & nock alignment. I'm careful to align nock and cock feather with the grain; mark the alignment on the shaft, set the clamp to place feather in line with the mark. At this point, the nock receiver doesn't line up the nock index with the feather, it's closer to the 10 or 11 o'clock position, so I don't glue the nock. Trouble is when I rotate to the next feather, it seems like the nock sometimes slips, and I get inconsistent spacing ( 3 fletch ).
Any tips or explanation much appreciated !

[Jim Wright]

On wood shafts glue the nock on in proper relation to the grain. Next if you are using index nocks, you may have to trim the back of the raised indicator so that the shaft goes in deep enough for the nock groove to seat on the bar in the jig. Remember when starting to rotate the jig so the flat cock feather indicator section is in the correct position. Start with the cock feather, rotate to the next two hens, you will have proper spacing. Do not be concerned that the nock and cock feather do not perfectly align.

[iohkus]

X2 JimWright

[slowbowjoe]

Appreciate the help, guys. Used this method on several arrows - fletching spaces evenly, but feathers hit the arrow rest & strike plate at odd angles - and affect flight.
Is there a way to adjust the nock receiver so the nock index actually lines up with the cock feather? Am I doing something wrong with the jig?

[M60gunner]

Like Jim Wright said, you may have to enlarge the hole where the nock goes. I did. Have you tried adjusting the nock receiver with the Allen wrench that comes with the jig? Maybe Blitz has a website that might help with instructions.

[ironmike]

i pencil mark the shaft for the nock location with the grain, then i press fit the nock, no glue....fletch it, line it up where i want it in the shelf, and glue it there..

[slowbowjoe]

M60, I have been trimming the index on the nock, since reading Jim's tip. Also checked adjustment of the three detents, and lubed the index knob; it's smooth and accurate. Seems like the flat on the knob needs to line up at 12 o'clock, rather than 11, as it does now.
Ironmike, I've used your method, with mixed results... usually the nock ends up slipping and messes up alignment. When I glue them on first, I usually end up cutting the nock off and reinstalling, which is obviously a pain. I think I'll try a compromise and glue them on with a drop of hot melt, remove with heat, then glue 'em back on with Duco.
Called Bitzenburger a couple of times with this question. They were helpful, but I got two different answers: one was glue  on the nocks with flat on indicator "up", other was M60's method of friction fit, then glue later. Only hesitance I have about the glue later is that it throws my nock/grain alignment off a little; not a big deal, I guess, but my understanding is it's desirable to have that lined up well.
Still hoping there's a trick to adjust the indexer itself, which seems like it would solve the problem.

[longstiks]

Joe,
  I have the same problem as you. What I do is just put a tiny drop of Duco on the nock,fletch and then break it loose and glue back on for better shelf clearance. I have noticed that the alignment is better with a straight clamp as opposed to a helical clamp.
Denny

[slowbowjoe]

Denny, a drop of glue for a temporary set seems like the best fix at the moment. I've been wondering if a straight clamp might line up better, so that's good feedback. Do you use one with the original indexer (in my case, left helical), or do you need a different indexer to match the straight clamp? (I see Bitz offers a specific one for straight clamp.) I'm thinking I like the idea of the straight clamp, too.

[Jon Stewart]

Like ironmike said, I have never glued a nock on the arrow before fletching it and been doing it for 40 years. After fletching is when I align the arrow and nock and then glue.

Twist the nock on with some force and that should help keep the arrow and nock together when rotating the nock indexer.  I use snap on nocks to fletch the arrow so the arrow will go all the way down into the indexer but I use speed nocks on my arrow when shooting them.

[Hobow]

You state that you are using a left helical indexer, this would be your main problem in getting good alignment.  

The left and right helical indexers are made for compound shooters and rotate the nock to split the difference between the tip and tail of the fletching in order to clear compound style rests.

You should try the standard straight nock reciever regardless of which clamp you use per Bitzenburger's own catalog numbers.

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=123601#000000

[Orion]

Your feather clearance problem is more likely the result of too low a brace height and or nock point than cock feather alignment with the nock.

However, you can adjust the clamp to align the tail of the feather with the nock.  If you have a helical clamp, you probably loosened both adjustment knobs/screws to adjust the helical and moved the rear part of the clamp up and the forward part down (for left wing clamp/feathers). Just the opposite for right wing clamp/feathers.

Anyway, just loosen the adjustment knobs and readjust it so the rear of the clamp aligns the rear of the feather with the nock index.  Snug that down. Then adjust the front of the clamp.  Then tighten both down.  This will likely reduce the amount of helical imparted to the feather by about half.

It actually positions the lower hen feather more perpendicular to the arrow shelf than your current set up.  So if that feather is hitting your shelf now, it will continue to do so, only harder.  Check your brace height and nock point (arrow spine, too, of course, if you haven't already).  All of those things affect feather contact with the shelf/rest.  Good luck.

[AkDan]

Its a bitz related issue!  What I did is glue the nocks on with just a dot to keep the nock on and NO MORE!  This isnt a permanent nock.  Glue my feathers on, bust the nocks loose, touch up the nock taper if needed and glue on my real nocks.   Its a pain but there's no way around it! same thing as stated above. I shoot classics for a reason, I like the big index and the nock as a hole.  You could possible drill out the adapter end though I've never tried or looked at it so pre-op it yourself before you go drilling!  Its an idea.

I've since switched to BPE pro's and love them! You can adjust for this issue, the adapter end is not going to destroy the nocks and its 2/3rds the cost of a bitz.   When I was building arrows as a small buiz, cost of a bpe was half the cost of a bitz!  

Another thing that works and you may or may not like this and I'll be flogged for it...is if you cant adjust the feathers, adjust the nock so that hen feather rides where you want it.  Its only a slight offset to perfect with the grain.

It's POSSIBLY going to affect spine slightly.   There's 2 reason we align the way we do, spine and in case one blows up on the shot it in theory wont go through your wrist.

First, on spine if you ever spine tested a shaft, you may or may not loose/gain a pound or two in spine or nothing at all by moving the nock the small amount you'll need to to get that hen feather to run where you want it.  If you do gain or loose a tad you could simply adjust for it in your braceheight simple enough....you'll have to do it for every one anyways.

second, how often have you seen a wood arrow blow up?  In 20 years 0 for me and the people I've shot with.  I have however seen plenty of arrows blow up and let me ask, when did it follow the grain?  Many times!!!  But many times it didnt (doug fir imho looks like a bomb went off).   So it makes us feel good, gives us a simple reference to in theory is the strongest part of the shaft *sometimes one side is stiffer than the other*, but really it gives us some kind of consistency.  Do dont for a minute think that that 5 degrees you have to twist that nock to allow clearance is going to hurt you!

Do yourself a favor....NEVER NEVER NEVER buy a spine tester!  You'll be dissappointed in many many many things!  I love wood, have shot them for 20+ years now and will NOT change if I have to start doweling them myself I will.  But there are a lot of nuances with them you have to play with/understand and one of them is learning how poorly the industry as a hole is with wood.  There good companies out there too, who take the time to send you good shafts to start and there are ones you send you junk as well...just be prepared if you ever buy one to find out the hard way as I did!  I have around 1000 shafts I've had for awhile now and I still dread having to go through them all knowing I'll likely not find matched dozens!  One of these long dark cold days maybe......

[slowbowjoe]

Loads of good info, guys. I think all my questions are answered (except, maybe, how to tell if I have a LW helical INDEXER).
I think I'll go with the temporarily glued nock, and call Bitz tomorrow about the indexer.
My sincere thanks and appreciation to all; I'm reminded once again
how great a resource, and community, this place is for me.

[Bladepeek]

Here's one more suggestion that may or may not be worth anything. I often use rubber cement when I want to temporarily tack leather together, or prevent a scope from shifting in the mounts without torquing it all out of shape. Maybe a dab of rubber cement on the shaft would keep the nock from shifting, but let you pull it off easily. It scrapes off easily enough when dry.

Ron