chrono data on hill style LB

[oldbohntr]

Beware the man with one bow.....   .....and no chronograph!

[pdk25]

Here is a link to a previous thread with some interesting data.

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=061557

[hybridbow hunter]

Come on...What is interesting in these datas exactly ?
the fact that we don't know the draw lenght of the archer for each bows?
 the fact that we don't know if "55# @ 28" " is the marked weight or the weight on accurate scale AT DRAW LENGHT?
The fact that the reported speed loss while arrow weight increase on that Hill is according to physics a nonsense: going from 580 gr to 730gr with only minus 10 fps for an added 150 gr/ means an increase of +2.8 gpp ?

[pdk25]

I didn't do the test, Laurent.  You could refute by doing a similar test with two like bows on a hooter shooter if you like.  This is precisely why it is interesting

[Nativestranger]

Originally posted by hybridbow hunter:
Come on...What is interesting in these datas exactly ?
the fact that we don't know the draw lenght of the archer for each bows?
 the fact that we don't know if "55# @ 28" " is the marked weight or the weight on accurate scale AT DRAW LENGHT?
The fact that the reported speed loss while arrow weight increase on that Hill is according to physics a nonsense: going from 580 gr to 730gr with only minus 10 fps for an added 150 gr/ means an increase of +2.8 gpp ?

Laurent, your own data for the Wesley shows a drop of 10 fps going from 10gpp to 12.3gpp. Or an increase in 2.3 gpp. So 10 fps loss from 2.8 gpp increase isn't impossible or defying physics. It just means that bow is extremely inefficient shooting the light arrows. A heavy string with lots of silencers or overbuilt limbs among other things will further reduce the speed with lighter arrows compared to heavy ones.

[hybridbow hunter]

NativeS you are right on the speed loss but on the wesley, 2,7 gpp increase from 10 gpp to 12.7 gpp drop the speed by 14 fps, 40% more speed loss than what GV reported though...
Now look at the reported drop from 7.3 gpp to 10.5 gpp on Gil datas: 28 fps for 3.2 gpp increase...
 But indeed it seems to be less than usely seen: a 1.5 to 2 fps drop for 10 gr for bows in the 50# range

Look , if anybody shows me under strict controled trial (hooter shooter, 28" AMO DL, regular chrony) a standard HH wesley like Gil reported shooting arrows 202 [email protected] gpp OR 174 [email protected] gpp OR 165 [email protected] gpp, i pay the bow of his choice from any sponsor bowyer to him, as i am pretty sure NO ONE will get those numbers at 30" DL...

By the way i really don't care about all the performance myth carried with those straight bows. You guys can believe whatever you wish    

[canopyboy]

Dagnabit All!  Y'all are trying hard to take the fun out of my hobby.

I'm a engineer/scientist by training and employment for almost 20 years.  Chronos are fun to play with and compare things.  But a grain of salt has to be added, or a whole bag if it's different people on different days.  And the absolute numbers are suspect on all of them I figure depending on the level of uncertainty you're trying to get and the date on your NIST traceable calibration and adherence to manufacturer procedures.

People getting wrapped around the axle because they don't believe other people's bows are as fast as they say or because they take offense to those who say their bow must be slower than they think it is need to remember why they got into traditional archery in the first place.

I believe someone once said that "Criticism is easy but....shooting should be fun."

[hybridbow hunter]

Is a donkey faster than a horse?
That´s the real question ...   :confused:


Have fun my friends     :D

[pdk25]

Good question,   A cheetah is much faster than a bear, but what happens if you strap 200 pounds on top of them?  Things change a little bit.

[gringol]

What happens when you tape a cheetah to grandma's back?

[pdk25]

Originally posted by gringol:
What happens when you tape a cheetah to grandma's back?

?

[pdk25]

[Gil Verwey]

I will pull my spread sheet in regard to the Dale Dye, Howard Hill test I did. Have you tested a Hill longbow with the same weight arrows through a chrono against a recurve of the same draw weight. I would like to see the results.   Mine showed that as the arrow got heavier the difference in speed between the two became close.

I wasted a lot of time and money testing bows through a chrono. I traded great bows away because they were a few feet slower than a different bow. I tested (back yard no machine and fingers) many bows, both longbows and recurves. All that did was screw up my shooting.

This is what I found. Most are close in speed and perform well enough for our needs. If a bow has an acceptable cast out to 40 yards and I don't have to over compensate for distance at 40 yards it is plenty fast enough for me. Find one you like and stick with it.

I am sorry I ever chronoed any bows. If you search for the fastest bow, you will spend a lot of money and waste a lot of time. Find one you like and shoot well and throw your chrono away.

When I said my Maulding shot in the 190s it did, at a archery shop using their chrono indoors. My friend had a Black Widow MA 70# @ 28 and shot the same arrow at 216.

You know what I say? Who cares. For what I do, which is hunt, most perform well enough for me.

My chrono days are over and for me it is a big waste of time.

[Gil Verwey]

Tom do you have XCEL. I will forward the spread sheet. This computer doesn't have it. I had to forward it to this computer from my work computer. I kept a few of these around in case I wanted to plug in new numbers to find out my KE and momentum.

I used to use this spread sheet to calculate kinetic energy, momentum, gpp and bow efficiency. It is nice to know the momentum and kinetic energy of your set up depending on what you are hunting.

Send me an email if you do. You can open this and use it to plug in a few columns and it will calculate it for you.

I posted this in a thread here a long time ago. The numbers in this spread sheet will match the thread, if it still exists.

After this post I retire from the how fast, chrono threads. I found out all I need to know with all the bows I put through a chrono and I know by cast to 40 yards what lights my fire.

[oldbohntr]

Gil, Thanks.  

Yes, I have xcel.  Pls send to [email protected].  I'll look it over, but I agree with you.  The chrono is just a tool and very often misleading.  Our perception is very often misleading and I use my chrono as one way to check mine.  But comparing someone elses claims to my own readings has proven foolish.   As I've said I didn't start the thread to get into an argument.

[Gil Verwey]

When you get the spread sheet look at the momentum, KE and bow performance as the arrow got heavier.

I won't do it on Tradgang, but that is always good for a feisty debate - momentum vs. Kinetic energy.

I did this testing for me and my curiosity. I only drew the bow back, shot an arrow, read the results and updated a spread sheet. It was meant for me so I have no reason to lie.

On the way

Gil