Transition to broadheads = yuck! Why?

[BobW]

I have been shooting very well with a 32" arrow, and 225 grain (100 brass + 125 point) of point weight with field points.  When I have transitioned to broadheads (ww 125 with a 100g steel adapter and 11 gr for the factory CX insert = 236), groups are irradic to non-existant, and accuracy of no good.

The same goes for a 2-blade Eclipse (145 head + 75 steel adapter and 11g factory insert = 231).

Could this much 6 - 9 grains make that much of a difference?  Somehow I thing it shouldn't.

Dixon spinner shows that everything is straight.

I will also be going to a full length arrow in the next few days as I am drawing long enough to risk hitting the riser or cutting my hand.  Would a longer arrow (1") need a drop in weight as the flex is more?

I'm frustrated, and a loss of confidence with a few weeks to go is a miserable thing.  Give me your thoughts please.


BobW

[insttech1]

I think you need to bare-shaft tune your setup...and ensure that your shafts are the correct spine.

That's all I can think of if you are spin-testing your heads and they're OK....

If you are shooting those 250CX's and have that much up front with that long of a shaft, they may be slightly weak.

Try a combo that will get you about 175 to 200 instead of up in the 230's and see what happens.

[Dan Worden]

I agree you need to work on your tuning. You can bare shaft or use fletched field tips and broadheads to get the same results. Follow the procedure at the link to see what is going on.

Start at a distance that can shoot good groups.

One question. Whats size and shape fletchings?

   http://www.bowmaker.net/tuning.htm

[PastorSteveHill]

I did this once and forgot to take the insert weights out from the back of the rps insert. I was shooting total arrow weight with a field point and insert weight around 550 grains with the 125 field tip.  I swithced to a 200 grain broadhead but forgot to take out the insert with wieghts attatched and all of a sudden I had almost 400 gr. up front. Really messed things up for me...   Just a thought.

[ishiwannabe]

Are you aligning the blade(s) with the fletch(s)? Not many more things I could come up with that havent already been said....er....typed. Good luck.

[jacobsladder]

another thing to consider is your broadheads are longer than your fieldpoints... this will cause your shaft to weaken a bit... john at srta says take a 1/4 to 3/4" of shaft off to compensate for this..or you could just take a little weight off of the tip to stiffen them up a bit..

[bbassi]

I think your flintching. Seriously. Get 3 hay bails so your not afraid of missing.

[robtattoo]

I would have thought that it's because you've removed the 100gn brass insert & replaced it with alloy & then loaded up your broadhead instead. You've essentially moved 100gn aproximatey 1-11/4" further forward on your shaft. You'd be far better served by putting the 100gn insert back in the shaft & using a total point weight of 125gn, to match your field point setup. Try using the short alloy b/h adapters in your 125gn Wensels. I think you've basically weakened your dynamic spine.

[Bill Carlsen]

Some broadheads are just harder to tune  than others. As much as I liked the Journeyman/Eclipse heads they have been the hardest for me to tune shooting off the shelf...so I never used them because they were finicky. I have  heard the same from some of my friends. Can't tell you why that is but it seems to be the case for us here in NH. Since going back to using an elevated rest and plunger I can literally shoot any bh without difficulty.

[insttech1]

Robtattoo has a VERY good point.  I would read and re-read that very carefully, in my opinion...
Marc

[Steertalker]

Listen to what robtattoo said.  You are completely changing the dynamic spine of your arrow by switching from a 100 gr brass insert, which is set back inside the shaft approx. 1 1/4 inches, to a 11 gr aluminum insert, which only sets back inside about 3/4 inches.  It also changes the FOC.  Both those factors will be amplified when shooting BH's.  Essentially....you are shooting 2 completely different spined arrows!!!!

Brett

[BobW]

thanks all.  

In regard to the fletch question, I am shooting (3) 5.75 magnum bananas.  This is a long bow and is not cut to center, so paradox is a must.  i am also shooting off the shelf and using seal hair.

I can't go any shorter as my ape-length arms are almost a "short draw" with a 32" arrow.  That is why I will be trying uncuts as I try to work this out.

Following Robtattoo's explanation, will I need to drop even further in point weight with going full length?

I do have some magnus 2-blade 125 screw-in bh's that I can try.....

[jacobsladder]

ive got some 220 grain screw in muzzy phantoms ss coming soon...if you do decide to go to another broadhead take a peek at them..

[JEFF B]

iam with rob on this one. well said rob

[BobW]

bbassi,

you have seen me shoot, and that might be a part too.....

[doctorbrady]

After reading all the replies, I still think that it is most likely to be an arrow tuning problem.  The change in distribution of weight may help with things, but I don't think that the subtle change in position will affect your spine as dramatically as you have noted.  However, having arrows which are not spined correctly may not show up with field points at all, but the problems will be dramatic with any type of big fixed blade head.
Try the change that Rob made first because it's easy.  Then if that doesn't fix it go back to the drawing board by bareshafting your arrows.  (I am assuming that you haven't already done so).  I have gotten to the point that I now bareshaft all new arrows right from the start because it is the foundation that everything else will rest upon.  Use OL's site as a guide.  It's a good one.
I also agree with bbassi.  Now that your confidence is shaken, it is even more important that you start close and limit the fear factor of missing until you get up to speed again.
Best wishes, Brady

[bbassi]

Originally posted by BobW:
bbassi,

you have seen me shoot, and that might be a part too.....

and I know your wife, who in the back of your mind would give you tons of grief if she saw you missing the target with those deadly arrows. I'm betting your sub-con is screwing with you and causing you to flinch. (really folks, she's not that bad. LOL) Go somewhere where you're not afraid to miss the target once in a while and I'll bet you a turkey hunt your shooting improves.