Treestand Lifelines

[TRAP]

For several years I've used lifelines for most all of my favorite stands.  I realize that's not good enough.  I should use them on all of my stands.  

With 12-15 stands hung every fall, equipping all of them with commercial lifelines would get pretty expensive.  

Was considering buying a climbing rope on the big auction site and making my own lifelines and saving a few bucks at the same time.  

I'm sure some of you have experience with climbing ropes and my questions are, if I go this route what kind of rope should I be looking for?  Or is this just a bad idea?  

The HSS lifelines I have are 1/2" in diameter  and the Muddy Outdoors lifelines I have are more like 3/8" or 7/16" in diameter.  What is necessary?  

Any thoughts or advice?

Thanks, Daryl

[McDave]

Climbing ropes are commonly either 10mm or 11mm.  They can be static or dynamic.  Static ropes are used for gear hauling, while dynamic ropes are used for climbing where there might be a fall.  Either can be used for rappelling.  Dynamic ropes stretch more than static ropes, so cushion the impact of a fall.  However, they only stretch enough to make much difference after a fall of about 15', so I don't know if a dynamic rope would help much in a treestand.  For short falls, the impact is usually controlled with a screamer, which is webbing that is sewn together in such a way that it rips apart as the climber falls and cushions the impact of a fall.  These are built into most treestand harnesses, but they can be bought separately as a piece of climbing gear.  They are very important, since the impact of hitting the end of a rope after a fall of 5-10' without any cushioning isn't much different from hitting the ground.  You can also buy locking carabiners designed for climbing that could be used in a treestand.  The main difference that I can see between climbing equipment and treestand equipment is that climbing equipment is lighter, where possible, since you have to haul it up a mountain while holding on with your fingertips and tippy toes.  I'm sure climbing equipment is as safe as equipment designed for a treestand, provided that guidelines are followed for replacing it before it weakens from exposure to sunlight, etc.  I'm not sure it would be much cheaper, however.

[2treks]

Trap,
This is a thread from last summer. I think it may answer you questions.

I have been talking with Jim at SafeTree Hunt. We I will have more on that later, but for now, I hope this thread helps you out.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=131164;p=1#000000

[Gator1]

Chuck thanks for refreshing the info I have to get in contact  with Jim.

[2treks]

Jim has been busy this fall Mitch, He should be settling out now.
I plan to be back in contact with him after the New Year.

Back up for Trap

Merry Christmas
CTT

[Whip]

I have added lifelines to all of my stands, even including ladders.  (Sure, ladders are safer to climb, but people fall off of ladders as well, so I include them)

The initial expense of setting up 15 or so stands was fairly high.  I just told myself it was a one time premium on an insurance policy.  I have a lot more invested in the stand itself than the lifeline.  I now look at it as just another part of the expense of buying a new stand.

Most of my lifelines came from Jim at SafeTree Hunt, and they are great quality rope with the prusic already attached.  I have bought some climbing rope as well and made my own, but you don't really save that much.  Jim is able to buy much larger quantities and his prices aren't that much higher than buying quality climbing rope on your own.  If you look around I think it would come down to a savings of just a few dollars per line.

[John Scifres]

I ordered 150' of KM-III rope and 15' of Samson prussik cord from knotandrope.com for $140 for 5 lifelines.  It's less than $30 each if you make them yourself.

Cut the rope with a knife heated to redhot with a torch.  Learn to tie a prussik.

Or buy them for about $40 each.  

Either way it's a bargain.  I don't know what your deductible is but have you been to the doctor lately?  Of course you could risk it and just get a nice term life policy to take care of your wife and kids after you die from a fall.  Mine's $40/month for $250 K.

[azhunter]

If I remember correctly Jason Wesbrock wrote an aricle in TBM about how to make these and how to tie the knots. Will look and see what month that was in.

[Tajue17]

I should run a life line and for whatever reason I never do... one fella I taught to bow hunt I have him using life lines but I just never think of it maybe from not using them all these years.. I free climb up and then hook up then free climb down,,,, and I did have a boot slip off the side rung and got the top of the ladder stick right in the A#$! my widow bow went flying hit the ground on the limb tip,, unstrung and shot back up in the air then came down on a stone wall,,,,, meanwhile I was hugging the tree shreaking at the pain in my bottom.  I

think for 2014 I'll run the life lines which makes sense because when you get into the stand you just slide the prussic all the way up while still attached and leave it,,,, no more wrapping the strap around the tree and fumbling with the carabineer.

[hickstick]

I make my own...the most important rule is that your static line be 2 sizes bigger than your knot line...(ie 9mm prussik, 11 mm static line)  or you knot may not cinch.

I don't use a prussik either, I use a klemheist knot.  it only grabs in one direction so its easier to slide up the rope as you climb.

another ting to consider is the abrasion resistance of the rope.  I've found that ropes with high abrasion resistance are slipperier and the knots don't cinch as well.

Tippit posted his safety setup a year or two ago with some great info.  search on it.

[Dry Creek]

You can get the Muddy Outdoors Lifeline on Amazon for $26.60 with free shipping. Just picked up 3 of them.

[ALwoodsman]

Thanks Dry Creek.  I just ordered some too.

[Liquid Amber]

I use them.  Every find your knot frozen to the rope?  

[Doc Nock]

I googled that very topic some few years ago.  Everything above is what I learned from varied climbing sites.  One thing Hickstick brought up is the finish on the main line... I didn't recall specific types, but the articles referenced that some had more of a beaded finish and were best for lifeline use...as the prussik hitch grabbed that style better.

Never heard of this other style knot so now more work to do! A friend has these Lifelines at his place and they seem a bit ornery to use, especially needing to take one hand off the climbing sticks to shove the knot up, but one would fall a very short "tether" distance only if used correctly.  Studies show 90% of falls happen entering or exiting the stand, so I keep the tether tight for both exchanges, to minimize distance before being stopped should a fall occur.

[tracker12]

I would  also check out Sportsmans Warehouse.  They often have deals on them and it inculdes the prusic knott and caribeaner.

[Tajue17]

for those people who have frozen knots I know from my rescue classes they do make a mechanical device called a rope grab that works the same as a prussic but you can keep it attached to your harness and then hitch on with that to avoid frozen prussic knots.

[hickstick]

kliemheist knot  

this wed site is fantastic for learning how o tie knots btw.   the Klemheist knot is sort of a 'half prusik'.  

I like it cause it only grabs in one direction...ie when load is applied downward it cinches, then simply flip the loop with your thumb and it loosens.

AFA frozen knots. both the klemheist and prusik take seconds to tie...why not just take it with you?   I actually take a spare loop with me anyway, in case of fall - tie a klemheist knee high to the static or main line and use it as an ascender to climb back up into stand or down to the ground.

[hickstick]

here is tippit's system
 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=110494;p=1

[R.V.T.B.]

I put lifelines up on nine of my stands this year.  My sons and everyone else who has hunted these stands have all made the comment as to how much safer they feel climbing into the stand.  I agree it is cheap life insurance. I bought a three pack of the commercial ones and also ordered in the climbing rope and built my own.  In the end, there isn't much difference in the cost or quality of either method.  In the future, I will probably just buy the commercial ones.