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Author Topic: Old School tuning......  (Read 2011 times)

Offline katman

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #80 on: January 28, 2014, 07:18:00 PM »
Those new to tuning and shooting traditional archery should be satisfied with the best they can tune at that time. With practice and form improvement there ability to tune to a higher degree will also rise. It is sad if some one leaves traditional archery because they feel they can not tune. Heck when I started some time back hitting the target at twenty yards made me feel good and was wonderful to watch a properly loosed arrow in flight. Also some are just not cut out for traditional archery and will leave the sport. Stick with it guys and gals, the journey is the reward.
shoot straight shoot often

Online BUCKY

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2014, 08:21:00 PM »
I'm guilty, of overthinking that is. I wanted to drop 50 grains off my tip weight. I went by my bud Tom (Bentpole) on Saturday to shoot. When I started to bare shaft he said "stop that and just try it"! To my surprise he was right! My arrows flew awesome! The 50 grains made no difference. The broadheads grouped with the field points. Old school tuning, awesome!

Offline Brock

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2014, 08:43:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ric O'Shay:


I have compassion for those that think it is necessary to obsess over bow tuning. But at the same time, there is something to be said for us "Old School" folks.     :archer2:  
I agree 100%.....I am less scientific as well...calculation in my head of add 5# or subtract 5# based on centershot, longbow, 29" draw or more, weight of heads, performance bow or old school, b50 or FF, etc....and then go for it....maybe change heads or change brace height as I shoot a little more but that is it.  Sometimes use the Spine Calculator but mostly just head computation...grab something close and see how it goes.
Keep em sharp,

Ron Herman
Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Backcountry Hunters & Anglers
PBS Assoc since 1988
NRA Life
USAF Retired (1984-2004)

Offline Roger Norris

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #83 on: March 06, 2014, 07:47:00 AM »
I think lots of tuning grief is really bad release/poor form....
"Good Lord....well, your new name is Sledge."
Ron LaClair upon seeing the destruction of his new lock on the east gate

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G. Fred Asbell

Offline Dan bree

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #84 on: March 06, 2014, 09:07:00 AM »
I got beat up on another site for saying this but here go,s. just grab your bow properly spined arrows and go have some Fun?  I think guys coming over from there compound days are over thinking  everything   Go ahead beat me up !
Dan Breen

Offline Homey88

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2014, 09:45:00 AM »
Great post! I just started shooting trad in January and I have been shooting everyday, and I too tend to get caught up in over analyzing. My goal is to find my proper set up for hunting then practice, practice,practice until the fall archery season then make a determination if I can shoot good enough to ethically hunt. I just recieved some good advice to just focus on form because it equals accuracy. I tend to get ahead of myself at times and want to hurry the process. I also enjoy learning and this site is a great resource. I'm going to take Blanios advice, have fun and work on form! I really enjoy this site and all the help that it has provided me on this journey. Hopefully I will be ready to take my first trad deer in the fall! Thanks for all the help.

Offline DaveT1963

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2014, 09:58:00 AM »
I guess I am an anomaly... I shoot the same 28 inch 35/55 GTs from all my bows (51# to 70#) and I get the same arrow with same point to fly great by brace height, nok set and rest material adjustments.  I can also get 15/35s, 35.55s and 55/75s to fly from all my bows (although the impact changes slightly and I then have to make adjustments to my BOW not my arrow.  I know this goes against traditional wisdom but it just works for me, I focus on making adjustments to my bow and make my arrows shoot where I naturally look.

 I tune my bow to shoot the arrow where I look.  It really is simple, if my arrows hit left consistently, I either adjust brace height or I use a softer side plate.  If they hit right consistently I adjust brace height and/or use a thinner and harder side plate.  If the arrows impact target above aim point I raise nok point and/or use a softer shelf rest, it they hit lower I use a harder shelf material or move nok down (most of the time my nock set stays pretty consistent at just under ½ inch and most of my longbows settle in to a 7 – 7 1/4 inch brace height.  Works for me and I seldom see any errant arrow flight using three 4 inch feather.  And I shoot rather large Simmons broad heads.  If I get bad arrow flight it is because of my release, dropping my bow arm or pulling my release hand away from my face.
Everything has a price - the more we accept, the more the cost

Caribow Tuktu ET 53# @ 27 Inches
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Offline arrow flynn

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #87 on: March 10, 2014, 01:53:00 AM »
amen to what moebow said
Arrow_Flynn

Offline Brianlocal3

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #88 on: March 10, 2014, 12:15:00 PM »
Dave,
That's impressive that you can do that. I've not had that kind of luck but it would be awesome to shoot the same arrow from all bows.
Now I'm sure they serpentine doesn't like your arrows so I give you permission to send it to me and I will make sure it gets proper use  :)
JD Berry Taipan (original) 53@28 62”
Cascade mountain Brush Hawk 53@28 56”

Offline last arrow

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #89 on: March 10, 2014, 04:33:00 PM »
I read through this post and am surprised to find out that bare shaft tuning is a new complicated high tech method.  I bought my first hunting bow in 1972.  I had been shooting a light weight recurve that I bought at a garage sale for about 4 years by then and had reasonably consistent form for a 12 year getting ready to go hunting.  When I bought the bow, the owner of the shop pulled out a bunch of bare aluminum arrow shafts and asked me what kind of broadheads I was planning on shooting.  He chose a field point based on my answer (145 grains to match the 145 grain screw in bear broadhead) and screwed them on the shafts, which varied in length and stiffness.  He then had me shoot them in his indoor range.  From the first batch of about 12 we narrowed it down to 4 that shot better and repeated until I had the perfect arrow – a 29” 1916 to go with the 45 lb bear Kodiak Hunter.
I still use that bare shaft method and can tune an arrow to a bow fairly quickly.  Now I generally use carbon and vary point weight to make things work, even with high FOC.  The problem is that we no longer have the local archery shop that can teach someone tuning quickly in an hour sales call like I had when I learned.  At the time, I didn’t know anyone that bow hunted and just met the shop owner that day.   I just knew it was something I wanted to do and was lucky to walk into the right shop.
"all knowledge is good. All knowledge opens doors. Ignorance is what closes them." Louis M. Profeta MD

"We must learn to see and accept the whole truth, not just the parts we like." - Anne-Marie Slaughter

Michigan Traditional Bowhunters
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Offline ozy clint

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #90 on: March 10, 2014, 08:14:00 PM »
here's my dilema- can group bare's, field points and bh's around the same spot but the bh's spiril most of the time. Yes i've tried everything. Different spines from full length to too short. What does my head in is when people say it must be form. Maybe it is, but how can you shoot a group with poor form? A group means your doing something consistently. Maybe i have a bad release thats the same everytime? The other thing that annoys me most is making a change to a variable and not seeing any change in results. Honestly i don't know how that works.
Thick fog slowly lifts
Jagged peaks and hairy beast
Food for soul and body.

Border black douglas recurve 70# and 58# HEX6 BB2 limbs

Offline Orion

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #91 on: March 10, 2014, 08:52:00 PM »
Ozy:  I assume your broadheads are on straight. Don't think I can be of much help on the spiraling issue.  However, that won't stop me from taking a guess.  I'm thinking your arrows might be marginally weak, which doesn't show up until you put the broadheads on.  Going up in spine might help.  

Re the small changes in one variable and not seeing any changes.  Small changes can be overpowered by bad form, but just as likely is the fact that small changes usually aren't that noticeable.  Big changes are or should be. Some folks say they can tell the difference in one twist of the string, 10 grains in arrow/point weight, a 64th inch change in nock height. Guess I shouldn't doubt them, but in 50 years of shooting with other folks, I've never met anyone who could.  

Bigger changes, on the other hand, like a half dozen turns of the string, or an eighth-inch change in nock height or 50 grains in arrow/point weight should be noticeable, but they won't necessarily lead to better or worse arrow flight because most bow/arrow combinations are pretty tolerant of these changes.

If the arrow is tuned pretty well to the bow, raising or lowering the brace height a little isn't going to affect the quality of the arrow flight very much if at all.  Likewise a little change in nock height won't either, nor will a little change in weight.  Each may raise or lower the arrow's impact a little, and the operative words here are "a little" but the arrow will still fly true.  And often, we're not accurate enough and/or our form isn't good enough to detect these changes, even with bare shafting.

I'm beginning to ramble. It's terribly difficult to diagnose a shooting problem without seeing the shooter shoot. All I can really suggest is take a deep breath, try to relax, and keep working at it. Keep experimenting, and don't be afraid to try some combinations that appear way outside the box.  Good luck.

Offline ozy clint

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #92 on: March 10, 2014, 10:26:00 PM »
must be something in my shooting? The saga continues. I agree with minute changes not making huge differences. I seem to have to make radical changes in spine to see any change in flight. If thats the case how do you try and get it in the middle of the bell curve?
Thick fog slowly lifts
Jagged peaks and hairy beast
Food for soul and body.

Border black douglas recurve 70# and 58# HEX6 BB2 limbs

Offline TRAP

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Re: Old School tuning......
« Reply #93 on: March 10, 2014, 11:11:00 PM »
Danny, It could be the "magic" built into those green hornet arrows you're shooting!!!!!   :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:    

Just kidding Brother, I agree with the fletch it up, string it up and shoot it theory.  I don't fret over tuning much.  I may get away with that because I like a lot of feather.  
4 X 5" feathers with a lot of helical probably help a great deal.

DD
"If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" Gen. Eric Shinsheki

"If you laugh, and you think, and you cry, that's a full day, that's a heck of a day." Jim Valvano.

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