HH Swing Draw

[mike g]

Lately I have practiced the HH Swing Draw method.
    But after watching the 4 videos of Mr. Schultz
I picked up a couple more pointers on it and I practice this method more....
    When It all comes together it is sweet to be sure....All most effortless.
    My last 3 shots of my last session, All 3 arrows where almost touching each other....
    I just got a new string from Craig at HHA, since my old one was 8 years old....
    When I set up the string I eliminated the silencers and the double brass nocks....
    So I could nock the Arrow as mentioned by Mr. Schultz....
    Anyway, to say it plainly, I like the Swing Draw Method....

[Onehair]

Pay close attention to HH in his draw. I see that he actually swings past then settles down on the target, not so much like Shultz.

There simply is no better way to do it.  The only hazard with Hill form is the full draw anchored release.  One needs to monitor it occasionally to keep things consistent, not every shot, perhaps a couple of warm up shots to check that everything is in order.  I see some guys get caught in shooting every arrow in that hyper analysis mode.  The Hill way says to work on one problem at a time, then forget about it, too much thinking affects accuracy.  I like to think of it as casual accuracy, in golf they say trust your swing, in Hill longbow shooting, it is trust your swing draw anchor deep release.

[lbshooter]

I have used this method for about 30 years with good success, particularly with still hunting for deer, and small game hunting, my two favorite shooting sports. The watch out is when shooting heavy bows or shooting when the muscles get tired. Good form can easily erode and require rework.  Maintaining the exact anchor/release process that doesn't slip into an inconsistent "snap shot" is critical to being consistently accurate, at least for me.On the other hand, holding for more than a second or two destroys the rythm and fluidity of this style. If you watch Howard Hill or John Shulz shoot, the anchor/release process, while a distinct contact is made, is only fractions of a second in hold time and barely perceptable.I believe that keeping this aspect of form consistent, is what Howard Hill referred to when he stated that he routinely worked on checking form throughtout his shooting carreer.IMO.

[Orion]

Hill used the swing draw a lot, of course, but it wasn't his only manner of drawing the bow.  It worked well for quick shooting on running critters like rabbits, varmints and bigger game.  If you're carrying the bow at your side with an arrow nocked, it's just a natural way to get the bow into shooting position.  

However, If you look at some of the old video footage of Hill shooting, particularly his fast trick shooting, you'll see that he also used what might be called a push/pull draw, i.e., starting with the bow in a bent arm pretty much at waist level, not a straight arm down at his side, and pushing the bow hand out while drawing the string back.  The push/pull is the way Bear did it as well, and one of the Wilhelm brothers. Well, both the Wilhelms did a push/pull, but one drew to his waist/chest rather than his cheek.

[two4hooking]

I am with you.  I like the Swing Draw method.

[mike g]

I agree with the above....
    While using the Swing Draw you still need to be conscious of form....
    I always start my practice with a few shots concentrating on a blank bale and keeping rythem and forum in mind....

[joe skipp]

I've been working hard on the swing draw with my Longbow starting last year. for me the key is bringing the bow up slowly and stopping on the area I want to hit. Then finish off the last few inches of draw length...hitting my anchor and release.

I tried holding at anchor a few times, it works but seems to throw off the rythem of a fluid motion. I have seen old videos of Hill shooting and there were times Howard held at full draw for a few seconds before releasing.

It's very critical, whether you hold for a few seconds or release when your at full draw THAT YOU REACH FULL DRAW. That's why Schulz talks about 2 anchor points. Think I'll go shoot a few arrows now.....      

[TSP]

It's interesting that despite all the instructional shooting videos developed in recent years (Masters of the Barebow, etc.) none have included Hill's swing draw method, at least not in the same fluid style and manner that he and Schulz did it (Gary Davis comes close, but not quite).  Most instructors today are very  technical/complicated in their approach...point, draw, anchor, back tension, hold, hold, check anchor, hold, check back tension, aim, hold, aim, release, follow through, follow through, Zzzzzzz).  I think the simpler, more fluid style that Hill taught is being largely shortchanged or left to fade away.  Target style isn't the only way to shoot, and I don't mean to say that everyone today thinks it is (which is why we have threads like this), but it does seem like today's instructors and instructional info dwells heavily (perhaps too heavily) on target style.  

Would like to see more 'hunter style' (Hill method) in available instructional materials.  Good form is certainly needed regardless of the approach, but the approaches themselves still are vastly different in their actual application.  Who knows, if more/better Hill style teaching material was available there might be a resurgence in that style. And people might start having fun again instead or worrying so much about little mechanical nuances that sometimes cause more harm than good.    

[joe skipp]

This fellows swing draw....really smooth.

 

[NBK]

Ya know joe, I've watched that vid before and if he posted that vid on the shooters column for advice most of us would tell him his draw elbow isn't anywhere inline with the arrow and he has to get his elbow back around more for better back tension!

Point is, there's obviously more than one way to skin a cat!

Whether I use a full swing draw or mix in a bit of spread draw to match the situation, my first shot is always best if I just shoot, especially at live animals.  I hunt on the ground and I don't believe in changing the habitat by chopping clearings.  Shot timing is critical, because the game I hunt moves around and through things that will deflect my shot.  It has been my experience that a moving animal is less likely to catch the motion of the shot than a standing animal. On deer, I was busted many times with my recurves with sights, trying to take slow careful shots.  That problem ended when I started simply taking uptempo Hill style shots with my longbows.  Deer can detect slow motions in full light about the same as faster motions, the reaction times are about the same.  If a deer will give you  three seconds to get off a clear shot, but if it takes you four seconds to get off a shot, you don't have a shot no matter how fast your arrow flies.  If you only need one second to shoot, you will have many more shots in your arsenal.  One can take quick shots straight drawing, but straight drawing requires  you to rotate your torso and shoulders toward the game and then rotate back to get a full draw.  During this process the eye and arrow are off line to the shot for a bit, which requires a second extra to re-aim.  Those extra steps are not conducive to my hunting shot concentration.

[onewhohasfun]

Joe skipp, The guy in your video is still using a push pull style of of draw, anchor , release.
 In a true swing draw the bow arm is straight and locked to the shoulder while pointing at the ground. The bow arm remains straight, (locked) throughout the draw cycle.
GFA teaches this method in his books. It is a timing thing and great way to achieve a pull thru release.
Snap shooting is a good thing.

Yes, the swing draw that G Fred uses for his recurves is different and stiffer than that which was taught by Howard Hill for shooting longbows.

[Shakes.602]

Well, thats pretty much how I shoot, like the Dude in the Video. Didnt realize I was "Swing Drawing". I reckon it works Fine for Me as well!

[smoke1953]

It certainly is very natural and is something I've done without realizing it had a name. If I think about it now it screws the process up. What I tend to do however that may not be good is that when I come up I then settle back down which likely leads to many high hits during hunting situations.

[Knawbone]

Originally posted by smoke1953:
It certainly is very natural and is something I've done without realizing it had a name. If I think about it now it screws the process up. What I tend to do however that may not be good is that when I come up I then settle back down which likely leads to many high hits during hunting situations.

I developed this style of shooting also. Never realized it was already branded. I always shoot best this way. If I try and concentrate and aim......not always so good! It's almost magical!!

[arrow flynn]

Ineed to set my shoulder and then draw back I tried the swing draw and it did not work for me.