Longbow arrow tuning problem

[Nuctech]

Hey fellas,

    I am getting frustrated with tuning some heavy arrows for my longbow. I keep getting what looks like a nock high kick after the arrow has left the bow at about 10 yards.  I have moved my nocking point every which way and I use a double nock one above one bellow the nock to keep the arrow from sliding down the string on release. In your guys and gals experience can a to stiff of spine cause a nock high kick? I am to the point of pulling my hair out.

[Alexander Traditional]

I was going to say maybe stiff spine. If you would put your arrow length and spine and the tips you are using. You should also give the bow weight at the draw you are drawing and you could maybe some better answers.

[Nuctech]

My arrows are full length 31" big jim blem gold tips 7595 which I believe is a .300 spine.  I am shooting 300 grain tips. My bow weight that I am drawing is 62 pounds at my draw length.

[Alexander Traditional]

It also depends on how the shelf is cut. I'm pretty sure building the side plate up makes them stiffer,so that wouldn't help,but I'm sure that more people will way in. That does sound stiff though. I'm shooting about 55 or 56 at my draw and using a CE 150 with 150 grains. I'm fletching up some  Gold Tip 5575's for this bow. You might have better luck with them. Let me know maybe I can ship you one to try out.

[Nuctech]

Thanks alexander! I shot some 400 spine full metal jackets out of this bow and arrow flight looked perfect with a 150 grain field point.  The reason I used a heavy spine is I was attempting to build high foc arrows and my thinking was if you double the weight of the point you need to go stiffer in the spine.  I will probably try to play with point weight some more as it does look like a spine issue.

[Alexander Traditional]

Glad you got it figured out. I never had any luck going with the heavy FOC. I always just got the arrow I figured was pretty close to the right spine and gave it whatever point it liked.

Oh and so ya'll don't think I'm a dumb Texas redneck I'll correct myself. More people will weigh in and not way in. I saw that and thought you need to go to sleep,but I've got two days off so I'm going hunting!

[Nuctech]

Ha! Sounds good, I am a kansas redneck so I understood ya. I think if I can't get these arrows to fly like they should I will just go with my full metal jackets.

[rwbowman]

I prefer to hunt with a longbow and have found it much easier to begin with a slightly weak shaft, based on what I want up front (total point/insert weight). I used to try to start stiff and break the spine down by adding more weight, but only frustrated myself, so I switched to the other end of the spectrum for spine tolerance for my desired front end weight. I am currently shooting a total arrow weight of 532 out of a 50# longbow, with 250 of that being insert and point. Though I'm not exactly sure what percentage that puts my FOC at on my full length Easton Axis Trad 500's, I know there's plenty up front to hold target line in a crosswind and blow through the ribs on a whitetail every time.

[JRY309]

Carbon arrows recover much quicker that a stiff carbon arrows you try to weaken the dynamic spine by a heavy point can give you a false reading.I tried tuning some stiff carbon on a longbow.They were showing stiff so I thought I could weaken the spine by addind a heavier point.They got worse the more weight I added.They recovered much quicker in effect bouncing off the riser instead of flexing around the riser.Now it would be a different story with a recurve cut past center.With longbows cut off center dynamic spine is more critical.It does not always work the same adding more front end weight to tune a stiff carbon.When I'm tuning a carbon arrow for my longbow I go with what works with a carbon arrow.And I usally end up with a 145 gr to 225 gr upfront and with a carbon arrow depending on what spine I start with.It has more then enough FOC,much more then if I used a wood or aluminum arrow.

[Nuctech]

Here is something strange to thicken the plot. If I screw on my 300 grain grizzly broadheads the stiff arrows fly just straight as can be.  If I screw on my 300 grain field tips I get a high kick. Weird........is this the witchery of archery I have heard so much about lol!

[JimB]

I shoot high FOC arrows and with a bare shaft,the nock is always high.I don't see it with fletched arrows though.If you are getting good flight with the grizzlies,as far as you are comfortable shooting,I would say you are there.

[rraming]

you can cause it by too much pressure with your bottom finger as well - nock high that is

[NBK]

Originally posted by rraming:
you can cause it by too much pressure with your bottom finger as well - nock high that is

Also pinching down on the nock with your top finger causing the shaft to bend down at full draw.

[Nuctech]

I can see how pinching the nock from above or below could cause that. I wonder if my double nock point is to tight?

[AkDan]

generally speaking up and downs are not spine related.

You can however get it from too much or too little heel depending on tiller.  

I've also had some goofy stuff happening from pinching nocks with a tab.  

As for the new stuff going on...think about it this way, with a field point its catching 0 air..you threw wings up front and wamo it 'corrected' it.   I don't believe the BH is the fix, kind of a false positive if you will.  I'd bet that arrows still flying goofy!

the nock could be too tight...I'd venture to guess its not the nock either, though possible.  I'm leaning towards form more than setup.

[elknutz]

Is it possible the broadhead flies better because it is longer and reduces the overall  spine of the arrow because of the extra length?

[Nuctech]

I am still perplexed on the whole thing. I have pretty decent form when I shoot my recurve which is my primary bow of choice. I guess my form could be suffering that much going from my recurve to my longbow, anything is possible. I understand that spine is usually a left to right issue in arrow flight. I was under the impression with alot of weight upfront the arrow would have a bit of nock high kick just not as much as what I am seeing. This is my first attempt at higher foc arrows so I suppose I can chalk it up to trial and error.

[AkDan]

could be but I don't mess with high FOC, no need even on moose/grizzlies though its fun to tinker, its something I'd like to play with as well at some point.

Try this, if you're heeling hard try not heeling the bow and see what happens.   Or visa versa....if you're high wristing it, put your heel down see what happens.  Try playing with the amount of pressure.   Its going to affect the tiller of the bow, take a kids bow you'll really see it.  Your form itself may be fine, the bow may just need to be shot differently than you're used to shooting it and now its finally showing itself.

I've had a few bows with regular FOC arrows that I had this very issue and this is how I figured it out...and also ended up having issues down the road with bows that normally shot well, come to find out I changed.  oops.

[BigJim]

With high foc, you will usually have a high nock pt with bare shaft. this is not an issue and a slightly high nock is preferable to me than a perfect nock. As inconsistent as humans can be, a slightly higher nock point gives a bit of cushion for the times when we are not perfect.

the original gold tip set up sounds like the right one to me....but here is the nut shell...if your fletched field tip arrows and your fletched broadhead arrows fly to the same point of impact and where you are looking than you are done tuning.
Bigjim