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Author Topic: Questions for Simmons wheelie sharpener users  (Read 785 times)

Offline Jake Scott

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Questions for Simmons wheelie sharpener users
« on: July 06, 2014, 10:53:00 AM »
Hey guys, as the title suggests I have a question or two.  I am getting a sharp edge, but not as sharp as I would like.  I am able to shave hair, but not without a little more effort than I would like.  I have noticed that when I achieve a good edge with the wheelie, that using a steel and strop then seems to move me backwards??  I have also noticed that one trip into and out of my great northern quiver seems to dull them, which I do not want.  As always guys, thanks on advance.

Jake
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Offline oldbohntr

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Re: Questions for Simmons wheelie sharpener users
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2014, 01:21:00 PM »
OK, I don’t want to disrespect a sponsor in any way, but I have to answer this.    In retirement, I am a professional sharpener and I do not like a draw through sharpener of any sort.  The draw through sharpener will make a concave profile on a straight edge and will ruin the shape of a knife blade over time.  This is not noticeable on a Simmons bhd because of the concave profile of its blades.   I have no problem with Simmons heads – just this type of sharpener.
Typically, sharpening is the process of removing the minimum amount of metal by grinding/honing at the best angle, raising a burr, and  rolling that burr back and forth with finer honing or less pressure until it breaks off.  Stropping or steeling properly can be part of this process(though most people do that wrong, too!)   That produces a fine edge.   However, for many years, my son and I killed a bunch of stuff with file sharpened Zwickeys, and that can be a tremendously effective way to sharpen a broadhead.    In fact, after 40 years of bowhunting and almost 10 in the sharpening business, I can’t tell you one way is better than the other for a hunter.   However, for me, the razor edge is what I want.  
There are several problems with draw-thru sharpeners.  I constantly have to correct some of these problems on chefs’ knives that have been sharpened on these.   Believe it or not, correct pressure and proper angle control are not guaranteed with these.  Worse yet, on the wheel and carbide type, the sharp edge you think you’re getting is not there!   What you are doing is ripping a burr from the edge, tearing it “forward” on the blade”.  Look at it through magnification: the steel is being torn off the bevel and the edge.   At the same the angle of the sharpener never changes to allow continual resharpenings at the optimal angle(over time a blade must be thinned near the bevel, making it possible to resharpen at an angle that will work as it did when the tool was new.)
While those “forward” burrs feel sharp to your skin, they never fall off cleanly, leaving a razor edge.  When you check to see if it shaves hair on your arm, does it scratch the skin?  Your razor doesn’t do that to your face, right?  A razor blade doesn’t have a burr on it.    
Not everyone wants to study sharpening, and there is not a simple solution other than replaceable blades(ugh!).  But, if you want to learn more about it, check this site:    www.razoredgesystems.com.   The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranich, is a wonderful resource.  
When asked for the best home knife and broadhead sharpener(small enough to fit in a pack, too!), I recommend the Spyderco Triangle Sharpmaker.   It’s available on line and at Sportsman’s Warehouse.  Don’t judge too quickly: this is NOT your average crock stick sharpener!  Learn to use this the right way, and you will swear by it.  It will sharpen the Simmons concave edges, as well as convex, straight.  I use one on every commercial bread knife I sharpen, and on other unusual edges.  It will produce a fine, smooth edge without burrs.  

If you want to know more about steel and strop, let me know.
Tom

Offline Jake Scott

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Re: Questions for Simmons wheelie sharpener users
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2014, 03:15:00 PM »
Tom,
Very informative.  Looks like I have a lot to learn.  Thanks a lot for taking the time.  I have already looked into the spiderco sharpener, I am a pretty big fan of their knives.  I really appreciate your insight.

Jake
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Offline Rob W.

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Re: Questions for Simmons wheelie sharpener users
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2014, 05:54:00 PM »
I personally love the wheelie and have been using it a long time with a lot of success either butchering or in the field. Are there better methods and sharpening instruments out there? Yup. Am I left wanting more from the wheelie? Nope.

I have butcher knives that are over 15 yrs. old that have never seen anything but a wheelie. As far as broadheads go it takes some experimenting to figure out what each type of head likes. Some of the straight edge heads are pretty well foolproof while Simmons takes a little more technique.

I like to hit the factory grind with a chainsaw file first on the Simmons and then pull through til it moves more freely. I then push through using lighter and lighter strokes and finish pulling using lighter strokes. Pay attention to the angle on the convex heads and try to maintain that angle throughout the pull.

I got my tree sharks out this year that had been sitting since deer season and they would still shave. That's about all I ask out of an edge as longevity goes. A broadhead isn't in a deer very long, my knife edges get me through a deer or two at a time and I'm going to resharpen both afterward anyway.
This stuff ain't no rocket surgery science!

Offline Slickhead

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Re: Questions for Simmons wheelie sharpener users
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 06:35:00 PM »
I actually spoke to the owner of Simmons last week.
He said that the wheelie or rada type work well but caution should be taken not to press too hard.
I thing crock sticks would be good enough for touching up and fine tuning.
Slickhead

Online elkken

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Re: Questions for Simmons wheelie sharpener users
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2014, 06:39:00 PM »
Hey Tom ... whats your address I will send you all my heads for sharpening ... LOL  maybe a seminar at the TBW event in August would be good. I remember seeing Del Eatman do one with a file and chock sticks and he could get a head hair popping sharp. I am definitely a sharpening challenged bowhunter.

best to ya, Ken
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Offline Jake Scott

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Re: Questions for Simmons wheelie sharpener users
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2014, 07:37:00 PM »
A lot of food for thought.  I have found that I can get a good burr with a half round file, then I gradually grind it off with a jewel stick.  Finish on a file and then strop and I have what seems (to me) like a nice polished edge that shaves easily.  My curiosity is definitely piqued about the spyderco sharpener though.  I have been in pursuit of the perfect edge for years, haven't found it yet.  I appreciate everyone's input, a lot.

Thanks guys,

Jake
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Offline Jake Scott

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Re: Questions for Simmons wheelie sharpener users
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2014, 07:38:00 PM »
Finish on a steel, sorry about the typo.  

Jake
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Offline ChuckC

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Re: Questions for Simmons wheelie sharpener users
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2014, 07:54:00 PM »
Sure the RADA and other draw thru sharpeners are not the best for the blade, but really, I can sharpen a broadhead pretty decent with either, then use a ceramic stick or buff it on cardboard.  I always carry some form of draw thru for touching up in the field should I need it.  Try something for the Simons heads,  Hold the arrow shaft with one hand and draw the RADA (held in reverse) back across the blades from front to back.  Works pretty decent for me on those concave heads.
and as was said. . . go lightly
ChuckC

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