What do you guys think of this idea

[snowplow]

Hey guys. I am a longbow shooter and am ready to make the change to a small recurve. I currently shoot Mediterranean and easily shoot a 55# longbow (super easy).

I love the idea of shooting thumb ring style. It makes so much more sense to me on paper. (arrow is on the correct side as the arrow hand, longer draw, no glove to deal with, fast short bows etc). However I dont know that I could make the change. (However, I am of the mind that anything can be done with practice).

So I have two options and I want to see what you think is more wise.

1. Get a Kaya Khan at 55#. That is the max weight offered (ideally I'd like more) I pull to 29 so it would be closer to 60#. It has a shelf and is set up to shoot the way I do now. Just with that style of bow. It only costs 300$ so isn't bad as bows go. Then later sometime take the plunge and buy another bow to try for a thumb ring. The Khan couldn't do that as it stacks heavily after 29" and has a shelf cut on the left side (so it would just be weird).

2. Just get a 60-65# Hwarang now and be done. They cost more at 450$ but that still isn't bad. The way I see it I could shoot at 28 if I want at just a bit more poundage as I am now (which would be nice). And when I want to I could try thumb ring style shooting whenever as this can be drawn 32 or more inches. What is cool is I could shoot it conventionally until the poundage is easy again and then when I switch to thumb ring it will add about 5 more pounds or so.

Basically I like the khan bow much better (it's beautiful). But I cant find a single drawback with the Hwarang. However the Khan is so cheap as bows go maybe I just say screw it and get it to try? Maybe I'll love it?

What to you wise fellas think?

[Pat B]

If you have never shot a thumb ring I'd try it first. It is totally different from a Mediterranean draw and not just the release. The first time(s) I shot a thumb ring my arrows went about 3' to the right of where I was aiming for. It will take a while to get used to this different method. If you are serious about shooting a thumb ring I'd suggest you start after this hunting season to prepare for next years hunting season.

[nineworlds9]

I tried out a Hwarang for a little while.  Construction/quality is decent.  Mine had a natural color grip and blue leather tips and red string stops that I dyed black to make it more 'woodsy' LoL.  Mine was around 55#.   I shoot split fingers and draw to 29ish.   Fun little bow that is nutso fast for what it is, but at 28 and up shooting split or 3under there's some finger 'crowd' (don't really want to call it pinch) issues and it really takes some serious good form and crisp release to get it to shoot decently well at anything above 15 yds.  It is obviously designed first and foremost for thumb ring use.  I tried that briefly..I gave up because I just don't have the patience for it/ I didnt want to shoot an Asian style bow that bad that I was willing to put in the many hours of practice since I shoot split finger just fine.  I am a stickler for smooth bows and I will way this about the Hwarang...32" via thumb and you are pretty much at the wall on that bow.  Really its good to 30-31 via a ring in my opinion.  Then again, at 32" hitting the wall it may be meant to kinda be a draw stop in a way.  You will flat out laugh at how fast the arrow flies shooting that way too.  Its crazy zippy.  Shot 'Medi' style to me the Hwarang is fine as a blind bow or close range brush bow for a 26-28" draw archer.  

I can't speak for the Kaya directly, but other than being cheaper I think it might end up a little more user friendly shot the conventional way.  You also might consider the Kaya Windfighter instead.  It gets favorable reviews.

[nineworlds9]

You might go headlong for the Asian style bows and ring shooting, I hope you have a blast!  BUT, if you decide you want to stick to 'Medi' style shooting split or 3under, strongly consider a bow like a Java Man Helms Deep, they are short and super handy, and very forgiving for their size.  They start at 52".  

Also, I should mention Saluki bows.  They are on a whole other price level and finish level than a Hwarang, bordering on functional art, but a bow like the Saluki Ibex or Turk can be shot 'Medi' or ring style and are designed to be a lot more forgiving.  They end up a little longer than something like a Hwarang, usually 52-54" minimum, but are truly among the finest bows available...that's kinda why you hardly ever see them for sale.  I had a 60" Ibex that had a lefty shelf (I'm lefty) that was absolutely incredible.  Could be shot split like a boss with no pinch and crazy fast, OR could be shot righty with a ring using the shelf, also to good effect.  Google Saluki bows and Lukas Novotny.  

Good luck either way

[Bjorn]

Perhaps a dumb question: Why not try a thumb ring on your current bows and see how you like it?

[snowplow]

I have but not practiced like that. I cant get decent form because at 29" I am already into the stack. It does seem like I would like it. I just cant swear I'll be able to hit anything like that yet. And I currently just cant really shoot it correctly because of the draw limitation.

I am sure I want to shoot an Asiatic style bow. My only question is which way. With fingers or thumb. It seems with the Hwarang I could do both. So I could always fall back on the fingers. I do want a new Asiatic bow either way.

[snowplow]

I also checked out the helmsdeep and others like that. For some reason I really do not like shooting bows like that. I dont know if it is the high brace height or the super forward handle but I dont like them for some reason.

[halfseminole]

A Kassai would be an option.  I shoot exclusively thumb style, and with a bow with no shelf or dual shelves, bow style doesn't matter.  I can draw to 38-40" on some of the lighter Asian bows, but normally work at about 36".  If you're just getting started in Asian style, the u-finish from Attila would be perfect for you.  It's a lot cheaper and makes a perfectly capable bow.  

Moving to thumb style is a big commitment.  Is there a specific reason you want to change?  My right hand was crushed in my early twenties, and thumb is all I can shoot.  I don't get a choice.  You do, so examine why you want to go "against the grain" so to speak.

If you do swap and need a thumb ring, I make them when I have interesting enough wood to play with.

[snowplow]

It just seems (on paper) to be a better way to shoot a bow for hunting.

1. Very short bow
2. Very light bow
3. Very little mass on the bow
4. Arrow shoots off arrow hand side (much less nocking movement)
5. A thumb release has 2 less fingers in contact with the string which seems like it would be 66% more forgiving.
6. Longer draw length per given bow length is more poundage (efficiency) per bow.

This is just my thoughts from reading about them. And maybe I'm not correct. But it sure seems like there are enough benefits to strongly consider relearning everything.

[KenH]

If it were me... and I shoot thumb ring maybe half the time ... I'd start out with an inexpensive (under $200)  30# or 35# recurve, not the full weight you currently shoot.

Thumbring puts a whole new set of strains on you, and a whole new set of skills to learn.  As half-seminole sez it's a commitment both in equipment and time/skillset.  That 55# is going to be PAINFUL to learn with.  Trust me on this...

I make and shoot short (48") recurves with no shelf or rest.  I shoot "off the hand" on either the Mediterranean or Asian side, 3-finger or thumbring.

[halfseminole]

Ken's 100% right.  You don't start at your max weight learning thumb unless you want to hurt a lot.  30# would be an appropriate start.  And thumb doesn't automatically grant a longer draw.  My genetic condition dumped mine on me.  You might pick up an inch or so, but to get more will mean moving your anchor point.  Another big change.  But as Ken has noted, you can shoot an Asiatic bow with your normal style and still have a short bow for hunting.

A thumb draw is not as forgiving as you think.  It has no mercy for an improper thumb ring or a thumbnail that is a bit too long.  If you don't get the string in the right area, it'll make your thumb pay big time.  I shoot exclusively thumb, so I got used to it when I learned with a teacher.  Learning by yourself is quite an undertaking, though it can be done.  Just be sure you want to do it.

Incidentally, I really want one of Ken's short bows.  My horn bow has developed problems and it's on the wall for this hunting season.  A 48" bow would suit me fine.

[snowplow]

Hmm, so what do you guys suggest if I dont want to buy multiple bows? Could I not just get the bow I want and do drawing exercises or shoot (for thumb strength not accuracy) as much as I can until I can do it?

I am not really excited to buy a training bow ya know?

[nineworlds9]

Its not the thumb strength to me that's so critical, I am a strong guy with great grip strength and I didnt find drawing the 55# Hwarang all that uncomfortable.  Its learning the crisp release that's so tricky.  I went down to a 50# (Saluki) and a 40# (Ragim) Asian style bow and of course the pull was easier but honestly getting a good release wasn't any easier.  Reprogramming your feel and brain from Medi to ring style takes hundreds of shots, and by using too heavy of a bow from the beginning is kinda handicapping yourself if you're serious about learning it.  Part of the reason I gave up was when I realized the lighter bow wasn't really going to change the learning curve that much.  On the flip side, someone who has been shooting ring from the get go I bet could learn to shoot fingers way quicker.  I personally don't think you should go over 40#@28 to start.  30-35 like the others are saying would probably be best so you can really learn to master the release.

[nineworlds9]

By the way snow, halfseminole sent me a handful of different thumb rings a while back to try out.  I have a pretty average thumb knuckle, so good chance they'd work fine for you, and two of them had enough material left you could custom fit them if need be.  PM me your address and I'll drop em in an envelope and pay forward halfseminole's generosity.

[snowplow]

Wow what a generous offer! Thank you so much! I sure appreciate all of your guys' wisdom. Thanks for helping me out!

My friend has a 40# Samick Mind 50 that I can borrow to play with. I think I'll do that and get a feel for the thumb ring before I pull the trigger on any of this. Thanks again for all the considerations.

[snowplow]

What do you guys think of the pros and cons of these two options.

1. Hwarang 65# @ 31 (what I think I would shoot eventually)

vs

2. Hwarang 65# @ 29 (same bow shot as I do now)

Does one have an advantage to you?

[iohkus]

From the statement following your first choice I assume you are figuring to eventually shoot these with a thumb ring, but if you buy a bow THAT heavy for thumb ring you're going to give up on the idea right away and stick with Medi. These guys know what they are talking about starting with a VERY light bow. So, having said that, I see the second option as the better choice.
   I know having to buy the light bow (when it's not the one you want to end up with) goes against the grain, but trust me (and the others too) you'll be glad you did (if thumb ring is the way you sincerely want to go) Someone mentioned the Wind Fighter, less than $300.00 and I've seen good reviews on it.

   Before making a decision, check out these bows
 
   cinnabarbow.com

[snowplow]

Wow I am totally in love with those bows! They are beautiful. Thanks for sharing!

Here's how I look at things; I figure out what the best option is in the end. Then I figure out how I get there. I can shoot a 60-65# bow comfortably. I will get a bow that is as powerful as I can comfortably shoot for increased arrow speed. So either way I go above, it will be that weight.

It's no big deal if I need to practice with a lighter bow until I get it figured out. If that's what I need to do, I'll do it. I'll probably build a pvc bow to practice with for now. I am just trying to decide on my end goal.

[halfseminole]

However you end up, if you teach yourself thumb you need to start with a light bow.  It's a general requirement.  Trying to put 65# on a thumb unprepared for it will be the end of your experiments.  The Attila horse bow I mentioned is $150, and good enough to be a main bow.  A PVC bow is another good option.  But change one thing at a time-too much at once and you get messed up on all of it.

I shoot up to 70# thumb style, but I worked up to it.  And shooting heavier is less forgiving of your thumb.  Practice every day at your thumb style form and you'll work up quickly, but you won't just jump into this without regretting it.