Shooting bows, continuing to learn...

[snowplow]

Hey guys, I had a wonderful surprise yesterday as the Toelke Chinook arrived for a test drive. It is a 50# @ 28 and absolutely gorgeous even with black fiberglass.

This bow immediately taught me a few things.

1. I think my old current longbow has been left strung for a long time. I realized the other day that all of the hill style bows that I have saw are straight when unstrung. Mine follows the string by about 4". It is listed on it as 52#@28 but I cant imagine now because if this toelke is 50, I think my longbow feels like 40#. My scale just came in the mail, so I'll scale it tonight. That really surprised me.

2. I tend to swing draw. I never really noticed it much, and I dont do it when working on form (a lot), but when I'm just shooting it just happens. This Chinook is crazy. It feels like it doesn't change poundage at all. It feels like you are pulling 50 from brace and dead steady all the way through. It makes it doable, but pretty awkward to swing draw. I cant say a bad thing about this bow, but I am wondering if a longbow is what I was truly looking for all along?

3.There are 3 bows I am currently considering. All a bit different in style. So it might be decided by shooting style.

a. Dwyer Endeavor r/d longbow
b. Javaman Helms Deep static recurve
c. Toelke Chinook dynamic recurve

I have shot a short r/d longbow and liked it. And I like some string tension at brace (my current bow had hardly any at all) but not so much as the chinook. That feels like your starting at 45#.

I am wondering how the Helms Deep fits in as a short static recurve. I think I have heard that they feel like a longbow. I doubt I'll get the chance to shoot one, so could you guys try to help me figure this out?

4. It sounds like maybe I have two very polarized examples with my right now. My old worn out longbow with almost nothing at brace, vs. the Chinook that feels like its full weight. Do guys usually just have a preference or is it easy to get used to one or the other? Is there a great benefit to one to justify changing what you are used to?

5. Just from what I know at the moment, I like the Javaman the best. And I am usually totally the 'pick what you want and wait and save for it' kind of guy. But I have to ask, since I am not currently sitting on a very decent bow, would it be wise to order something that I wont see for a year? Or should I factor time into my decision and get shooting (and improving) that much faster?

[gringol]

Honestly, this stuff is so personal you are just going to have to keep shooting different bows to see what you like.  Check out the classified forum and see what you find.  Used is a great way to go for the stage you are at right now.  Figure out what you like before you drop a bunch on a custom.

[Orion]

Is your old bow an all wood bow?  Four inches of string follow is a lot.  Regardless, it will feel very soft vis-a-vis anything you put it up against.  Most any glass laminated recurve or extreme hybrid will have a lot of early tension/weight on the string. That's one of the things that makes them fast/efficient. All of the bows you're considering are going to feel much stiffer from the get go than the bow you're currently shooting. Good luck in your search.

[snowplow]

My bow has one thin strip of glass on the back.

Thats actually kind of good news to me about the hybrids having a bit of tension at brace. the one I shot did and I really liked how if felt. Mine has basically nothing and the Chinook has a TON. I want more than I have, but not THAT much.

Its funny now I started this wanting something and as I learned and looked am like something completely different than I did before.

[Bladepeek]

Measure the draw weight of your old bow that you like and that may give you a good idea of what to look for in a new bow. You may by holding only 45# (or even less) at 28" on the old one vs 50# on the Chinook.

[snowplow]

Wow, I measured my longbow last night with my new scale.

Supposed to be 52# @ 28" and I draw a bit past that.

Measured at 45#!

So I have a feeling somebody left this bow strung for like a year or so somewhere along the line. It follows the string about 3-4" when unstrung.

The good/bad thing is that this makes sense of a lot of things for me. I didn't have another bow to compare the weight to so I just thought it was as listed. That's why I was asking about a bow a few lbs heavier. So this Chinook at 50# isn't bad in total, but it is shockingly different to have SO much right off the bat. Now I see it is not an apples to apples comparison. Maybe if I had one in 45# I might not think the initial draw was so weird? And it explains in part why it seems slower than it should be as I am running 550 gr arrows on a 45# bow. I know that's not that big of a deal but it's one more thing.

[nineworlds9]

Snow, 550g arrows or 12gpp on a 45# bow that doesn't have 4" of set will fly quicker than youre used to.  No decent purpose built stringfollow bow should have more than about 3/4-1" of stringfollow built in anyway.  4" is making it a dog.  I'd retire that thing asap.  Its not giving you a proper shooting experience.   You want a bow to build a certain amount of early weight before smoothing out, it makes the cast more efficient.  A bow like that 4" set old thing builds all its weight late in the draw and basically starts stacking, that's ****e and not going to give you the shooting experience you deserve.

[Bladepeek]

Snowplow, knowledge is a wonderful thing. Now you know that you are comfortable with at least 45# and 50# is perhaps a bit of a stretch for you right now.

Maybe you will want to look for a good, efficient 45# bow, or, quite likely, you will quickly "grow into" that 50# bow with some training. Either way, you will be enjoying much better performance.

Working with unknowns and guessing is a frustrating business.

[snowplow]

This almost made me laugh it was so spot on.

A bow like that 4" set old thing builds all its weight late in the draw and basically starts stacking"

I started to pay attention to the exact difference in feels between bows last night and realized that draw weight didn't really increase much until like 3/4 draw, then so quickly I cant tell if I am in the stack or what.

Knowledge is certainly a good thing.

So for you guys who like longbows, why do you like the weight more in the back part of the draw vs early like a recurve?

[The Whittler]

Shooting a stick bow is fun and frustrating, don't you just love it. Good luck and always enjoy.

[Diamond Paul]

Nothing wrong with ordering a bow you won't see for a year, as long as you continue to work with the one you have now.  Most nice bows take a while to get, at any rate.  I would not order anything if you haven't actually shot some examples of that bowyer's work, though.  No matter how many guys rave about a particular brand of bow, there is no guarantee that it will suit you.  I was never able to love Widows, for example, even though probably more guys shoot those than anything else, and even though they are very good bows.  They just don't work for me.  Have you considered trying a used bow?  That's a good option.

[jackdaw]

Remember, if your bow draws hard from the get go, then it also FINISHES hard.!! I much prefer this type of bow to one with a soft start to the draw cycle. That Toelke is a heck of a bow..!! So is that Javaman..!!  To me the only debate would be between those two..!!