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Author Topic: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?  (Read 476 times)

Offline enjoyinglife121

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B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« on: March 11, 2015, 05:57:00 AM »
Hi guys - My wife and I having a bit of debate which I hope you can help with.

We recently purchased 'OMG B-50 Flemish strings' for our bows. Both bows are Bear takedowns. My bow is AMO 60 and hers is an AMO 56.

For my bow, we purchased a 56" 14 strand two bundle flemish string (60" AMO - 4" = 56").  
For her bow, we purchased a 52" 14 strand two bundle flemish string (56" AMO - 4" = 52").

When we went to string the bows, we found both new strings were not the rated length, but each was 6" shorter.
The 56" string was 51" and the 52" was 46".

My understanding is these strings need to be mounted and allowed to stretch. Although I think a 6" stretch is alot?

My wife believes the strings are too short (wrong) and we need to exchange them for the corrected 'rated' lengths.

Can you please help clear this up?

Thanks
Ken

Offline dbd870

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2015, 07:17:00 AM »
Wow; They won't stretch that  much! You definitely need to get the correct strings.
SWA Spyder

Offline frank bullitt

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2015, 07:28:00 AM »
Sounds like they went by amo length on the "string length" you requested!

Better to purchase from a maker who goes by actual string length.

Offline LBR

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2015, 09:20:00 AM »
AMO specs state they are to be measured under a 100# load.  Depending on how those strings are made, whether or not they were pre-stretched, and the draw weight of the bows they could settle in two inches...or not.


AMO says the strings should measure 3" shorter, not 4, but not every bow follows AMO specs.

Offline DanielB89

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2015, 09:36:00 AM »
Ken, chad know far more than I, but in my experience, when I make a B55 string, it will only be ABOUT 2 - 3 inches shorter than the actual length BEFORE I stretch them.  

I have learned more about string material in the past year of building strings that I would have ever thought I would know about it.


B55 is some crazy stuff. When i first started, I sent some friends some strings that came out short and I knew that they were at length when they left my house.  Sure enough, they sent them back, i stretched them out and they were at the length I needed, but when i removed the pressure they would shrink up to 5".  Yes, you read that right, 5".  

This is one of the reasons I always advise people to shoot FF strings if their bows allow them.  When i finish a FF(bcyX) string, it will be no more than 2" shorter than i need and after stretching will only shrink about .75". The difference in quality is like comparing a sammick sage to a black tail,  there just isn't a comparison in my opinion.
"Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD And whose trust is the LORD. Jeremiah 17:7

"There is a way which seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death."  Proverbs 14:12

Offline enjoyinglife121

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2015, 10:01:00 AM »
Guys - Thanks for the quick assistance.

This sounds like I own this mistake.

When the first store didn't have both strings my wife and I went to a second store about 30 mile away for the other string.

At the first store I mentioned I had a 60" AMO bow so needed a 56" string.

At the second store my wife had a 56" AMO bow so I needed a 52" string.

I gather I need crash course in strings.

Thanks again for your assistance.
Ken

Offline DanielB89

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2015, 10:11:00 AM »
i sent you a PM.  Let me know how I can help!
"Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD And whose trust is the LORD. Jeremiah 17:7

"There is a way which seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death."  Proverbs 14:12

Online Orion

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2015, 10:14:00 AM »
If you had received what you had ordered, the strings probably would have worked.  Depending on how much the 51-inch string is twisted, it might work on the shorter bow, i.e., might be able to untwist it a little, and, of course, it will stretch some as it settles in.

If you have existing strings for your bows, measure them and order new strings the same length.  The AMO guidelines are just that, guidelines, because a lot of bow makers don't follow them.  Good luck.

Offline stagetek

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2015, 10:34:00 AM »
I order my B-50 strings 3-3.5" shorter than the listed bow length. I just tried some B-55 from Champion strings. Less stretch.

Online M60gunner

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2015, 03:42:00 PM »
I just got a B55 from Alan at 10ring for my 72 Bear SK. I measured my old string from bottom of loop to bottom of loop. The string he made was a little long, about 4 twists for my 7 3/4 BH but it stayed that way all night. I shot it today and no more stretch. I do not buy packaged up strings any more for any of my bows. I rather wait a week or two and get the right string the first time. JMHO

Offline enjoyinglife121

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2015, 02:45:00 PM »
Guy - Thanks again for you quick help. The mistake I made was thinking getting strings would be a simple process, if I knew the manufactures AMO bow length and subtracted 4" from that. So much for my simpleton thinking.
 
I went back to both stores yesterday with the results below. I was hoping for a learning opportunity. These shops (both very good) cater to differing archery segments (Trad and compound). So I figured I might get differing info (which I did).
   
With the goal of getting close to the recommended brace heights with a string out of the bag and moving to D97 strings, here’s what I found.

56” bow:
My wife’s bow had a true AMO measurement of 56” measuring the unstrung bow from string nock to string nock. From what I’ve learned (so far) this seems to be the preferred method for measuring recurves. This video outlines what I did.

 

With a true AMO of 56”, the ideal string appears to a 53” D97, which is 3” shorter than the AMO length. Exactly what LBR noted above!

This produced a brace of 8”, out of the bag. The manufacture range is 7-3/4 to 8-3/4. There were enough extra twists on the string to achieve 7-3/4, but I chose 8” for now. Based on the AMO standards I found from below link, the above is correct. AMO standards show a 3” shorter string from the actual bow length.
 
 http://www.texasarchery.org/Documents/AMO/AMOStandards.pdf

The string packaging for this string stated 53”, which was the actual string length, not the bow length. This seems a more specific packaging concept to me, but maybe I’m wrong.  

60” bow:
My bow has an actual length of 59” (tip to tip), differing from the manufactures AMO rating of 60”.
The manufacture brace height range for this bow is 7 to 8, differing a bit from my wife’s bow.

Using the same methods I used for my wife’s bow, I got a 56” (actual string length) producing a 6-3/4 brace height out of the bag. With 16 twists I got it to 7-1/2 as a starting point.  A 55” string probably would have been idea, but the vendor didn’t have one in stock.

In this case, it appeared the AMO standard of 3” below actual bow length (59” to 56”) worked. But the old concept of 4” less than actual bow length would have worked too (59” to 55”), and possibly better.    

The string packaging for this string states 60”, which was NOT the actual string length. The actual string length was 56”. So it appears this packaging states the bow length NOT the string length.

The trad vendor actually measured the bow, agreed D97 was ideal and tried a few strings to determine the best match.  

The compound vendor stocked only B-50 strings. The reason being was to eliminate any liability of tip failure if a customer used the wrong strings. I can understand doing this. My understanding is B-50 can be safely used on any bow without tip failure issues.

What I’ve learned (so far); -
1) The original problem was I stated the AMO bow length and that I needed a string 4” less than the bow length. I then stated what I needed, 56” for me and 52” for my wife, But in both cases, I got strings for that bow length (56 and 52), not the actual string length. Frank Bullit quickly and perfectly nailed this above!! Thanks Frank!!!!

2) You can’t rely on the bow manufactures AMO length. You must take an actual bow measurement, which may or may not agree with the stated AMO length.

3) You need to know what the string length number represents on the string packaging (bow length or actual string length).

Please correct anything I’ve still got wrong, or missed. It appears this can be a somewhat tricky subject. There are only a few trad shooters in archery clubs I below to and we are starting to get questions on trad shooting and setup. So I want to understand this so I don’t mislead others.

All this was simply to get the right length string for my bows. I haven’t even touched string material, number of strands, bundles, serving type, diameter, string stretch, creep, etc. I’m starting to think you need a master’s degree to understand bow strings.  

Thanks again
Ken

Offline mangonboat

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2015, 03:29:00 PM »
The good part is that you probably have an extra string, now, for your wife's bow. If its B 55 it will almost certainly stretch intially and brace up fine for a 56" AMO  bow. Depending on their vintage, Bear TD's limbs are not well-suited for skinny, no-stretch "FF" strings, so read the Bear TD forums to see what folks are using for strings and how heavy their arrows are.
mangonboat

I've adopted too many bows that needed a good home.

Offline Pat B

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2015, 03:36:00 PM »
I use B-50 on all my bows and use a bowyers knot on the bottom. That way one size fits all.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!
TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline frank bullitt

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2015, 11:01:00 PM »
Ken, with the work and knowledge you have shown from this experience, I would say you and your wife should pursue building your strings!

I have some materials you could use to start with, if interested. With plenty of support from folks here like Chad, Pat, Dan, and many others here! Let me know if I can help! That's what we're here for.

Offline **DONOTDELETE**

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2015, 12:28:00 AM »
You do need a masters degree to build bow strings professionally... And the schooling never ends as new products come out over time.... Ask Chad about that.. he's got 20 some odd years into it and is still learning stuff all the time.

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2015, 03:05:00 AM »
They should have bought the strings from Chad in the first place, I bet that he has made a few Bear takedown strings. He would have gotten everything they needed in those strings right.

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2015, 12:29:00 PM »
Just switch to D97 on all your bows and forget about the stretchy junk. It wont hurt a thing, contrary to popular lore. B50/55 is the worst man made material ever.

Offline LBR

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2015, 09:54:00 PM »
Just takes a little experience and a lot of practice to get it right.  Some folks like to keep up with a sports team or a race car...I like to keep up with string materials.  Doesn't hurt that sometimes I get to hang out with the folks that make the best.

Polyester (Dacron) has it's place.  Funny to think that when it was introduced it was high tech and revolutionary.  I still won't use anything else on older bows.  Some folks may get away with it, but my 31" draw is hard enough on a bow--I don't care to risk it.

I only have a couple of bows that require polyester--I keep them because they have special meaning for me.  Everything else gets BCY-X!

If anyone is interested in learning to make a string, I'll be glad to help if I can.  My next stop is the KY Tradfest next month.

Chad

Offline frank bullitt

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Re: B-50 Flemish String length and stretch?
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2015, 10:46:00 PM »
I will add to what Chad says, dacron has made me appreciate the evolution man has made in the development of materials in archery. At one time, there was no choices!

I have made many with both materials, and archery was satisfying with all. The primitive side seems to consume me now, the most! It' s all good, considering what you seek and share with others!

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