Great archers and heavy bows

[John Dill]

The Ferret has it right! Weight has nothing to do with the release. Yes heavier weights naturally pull from the fingers faster but distorting the release up shot execution is what throws a shot off. Fix your form and shot execution....then you can shoot any bow in any situation, hunting, 3-D, olympics, etc...no matter what weight you choose

Reffering to the original question. I find that most hunters use heavier weights for the obvious hunting advantages and since repetitive shooting isnt the case. Most of the well know target archers of the past use bows that were more comfortable, and allowed good form while shooting many shots. I think it is simple as that, really no mystery.

[Richie Nell]

30 coupe,
"Other than physical limitations of the bow user"

Did you not see that?
That covers 1. and 2.  
As for 3., I believe that I would have no problem ruining a broadhead with a lighter than 70 lb. bow by hitting rocks and trees just like with a heavy bow.

As for 4.  That is my point exactly.  
It's funny how it is always the guys that can't pull a heavy bow and don't have a heavy bow that say, "You shouldn't pull bows that heavy" or there is no need to use a bow that heavy".

You could kill a deer with 35 lb. bow.  Why use a 55 lber?  Because you can and there is no reason not to.

Same for people using 70 lbers.  They can and why not?

Again, If you can, why not?

[8th Dwarf]

I shoot heavy bows.  I have for the last 40 years.  Currently, I am shooting 74-76 pounds at my 64 years of age.  I am also VERY short, so to equate me to someone 6 feet tall, my bows are even heavier as a percentage of body mass and muscle mass.

Still...I shoot every day.  The 75 pounds allows me to shoot a heavy shaft FAST!  I hunt both Cape and Water Buffalo and for those animals, you need a heavy bow and an extremely heavy shaft...960 grains for me.

Heck, I shoot gophers, Turkey, Deer, Goats, etc. with that weight and the performance is flawless.

When I hunted with Paul Schafer, he was shooting 94 pounds!!!  But then, he was HUGE in the muscle department.  That bow was actually COMFORTABLE for him...he could shoot it all day.

Too Short

[Shawn Leonard]

Richie, it is not just guys who cannot do it. i do not know if ya have ever saw me, but I can pull and shoot 100# bows. My shoulders are bad and I still can do it. I just do not see the need. I kill just as dead with 50#s as I once did with 75-80#s. To each his own. Shawn

[Precurve]

I just watched a CD last night from Bear Archery that included an interview Fred did in 1986 where he explained his shooting style and choice of draw weight.  He said he was a self-taught archer and developed many bad habits, that he might not have had with some better instructions early on.  He claimed his release problems were cured by using what he called the "snap-shooting method" and by shooting a heavy bow (65#) to help with his release problems.
I read in Chet Steven's book that he found he could always shoot much more accurately with the heaviest bow he could draw to anchor.  As he got older and couldn't pull the heavy weights his accuracy suffered as well.
I would guess the old timers had many reasons for shooting heavier equipment than is the norm today, but release issues were definately a consideration with some of them.

[John Dill]

Yep...heavy weight helped caused the snap shooting for the "icons" back then and still holds true today. Get a bow you can handle. To many folks are looking for that magic bow with all the answers via weight,speed etc. Learn to shoot correctly...better accuracy will then prevail.

[Richie Nell]

What I am NOT saying is "If you can pull a 70 lb bow, you should"

What I AM saying is "If you can pull a 70 lb. bow how and why can someone ELSE think to themselves and say "There is no reason for someone to shoot a 70 plus lb. bow unles they are going to Africa".

I am also saying that statement usually comes from people who cannot use heavy bows due to physical limitations, but yet at the same time they find reasons why others shouldn't use them.

Just kinda of funny to me.

[Ron LaClair]

BamBooBender put my name in there with some pretty heavy hitters. (no pun intended)  It's true I shot some  heavy bows in past years and I'll try to explain why. When I decided I wanted a Howard Hill longbow back in the 70's I had a chance to pick up one that was in stock and eliminate the 6 month wait for a custom bow. The problem was it was an 85# Big 5. At the time the heaviest bow I'd shot was a 70# recurve so I didn't know if I could even pull 85#, so I  Took my wifes 35# bow and a 50# bow that I had, held them together and pulled them both to my anchor. After I found I could pull the weight I ordered the 85 pounder along with a dozen arrows.

When the bow came I got it strung somehow and started shooting. I found I could only shoot 3 arrows and couldn't get the 4th one to anchor. So I'd shoot 3 arrows, and then go pull them and when I walked back to my bow my muscles were rested enough I could shoot 3 more.I shot every day as much as I could and it got easier as I got stronger. Three weeks after I got the bow I killed a nice buck with it.

I shot every day, rain or shine. I shot in the day time and at night under the yard lights. I remember once I was shooting at night and it was snowing like crazy. Nancy came out and said, "the neighbors will think you're crazy"  I said, " it's time they knew".     :D      I shot not just to practice but because I  loved to shoot.

The more I shot the stronger I got and the eaiser it was to hold and control the heavy bow. Soon I was ordering more heavy bows. I had a 83# Zebra longbow that was 70" long. That bow ended up being my "target bow". I won the Worlds Longbow Championship in Alabama shooting that 83# bow. To me it pulled like butter and I could hold it for several seconds at anchor and shoot it all day long if need be.

The bows I had that pulled in the 80's felt easy because I practiced with heavier bows to build muscle. My work out bows were 104# and 120#, my hunting bows were 85 to 90# and my target bows were 80- 83#  I soon developed a distorted physique, the lat muscles and shoulder muscles on my left pulling side were much larger than the other side. It was only noticeable when I had my shirt off. I was fortunate to never have any shoulder problems although now, years later my bow shoulder clicks and grinds sometimes.

Ok, so what's the point of shooting the heavy stuff? For me it was better accuracy with my hunting bows. Before I started shooting heavy bows I had been shooting and hunting for 25 years with bows from 50 to 70#. I did all right with these weights but I did even better with heavier bows.

To have good accuracy with a bow you must have control of the bow. In other words YOU shoot the bow, the bow doesn't shoot you. You must be relaxed without a lot of strain to be able to make a good shot. That takes muscle, and you develop that muscle from shooting a heavier weight than you normally shoot. If you want to hunt with 60#, practice with 70#

Today at 71 years old I've dropped down in weight considerably. I hunt with 55 to 60# mainly because the old body is wearing out but also because I don't shoot as often as I used to. I find I can control and shoot a 60# bow as well as I used to shoot an 80 pounder. In the DVD Masters Of The Bare Bow, the bow I shot was 60#. The average weight today I think is around 50 to 55#.  The other reason I'm shooting less weight is these new fangled bows I'm shooting today perform so darn well that you don't need a heavy bow.    

[Tom A]

Possibly because there was no such thing as a light arrow back then. Those heavy wood and aluminum arrows take a heavy bow to make them shoot flat. Most of todays top 3D trad shooters who are also 99% hunters are commonly   shooting bows from 40-55# with the rare 60-62# fellow here and there. Arrows were so heavy back then that people invented the overdraw so that they could cut there arrows shorter making them lighter. Not needed with todays light and stiff carbons.

[pucci]

I really enjoyed reading Ron's words, most of these things are happening to me so I feel a lot of things in common with his story. If you ever write a book, I'd buy it!

[hockeyref]

This may be strirring the pot with a canoe paddle but, I think there are two key points here:

ONE -  you want to use the heaviest bow you are comfortable and proficient with. EMPHASIS ON COMFORTABLE - not I can draw it and hit with it for a couple shots. When you're cold, stiff, or tired that could come back to bite you.

Two - a 55# bow with 9-10 gpp arrows and reasonably heavy heads will suffice for 85% of what most of us hunt in North America (100% in many cases). There is no need to beat up your body to go heavier. That said, see point # 1... if you're comfortable and proficient with 70#+ go for it.... Just don't think you "Have to work your way up there" unless you are looking at going after very large or very dangerous game.

I personally feel it has become as much ego as practicality when it comes to draw weights above ~65# (in most cases) ... kinda like using a .300 win mag for a small whitetail in a PA wood lot. Dead is dead but some folks are just masochists and feel they need the magnums.... a 70# bow pushing 750grain telephone pole at 185 fps is approaching magnum status in my mind. An 80#+ bow pushing an 850gr+ arrow is definitely in magnum class. Or to put it another way - would you use something like a .500 Nitro on a Whitetail or even an Elk? Now if you only have one bow or rifle that's a whole 'nuther discussion.....

Edited to say, "Right on Ron!" .... In my case, at 42 years of age I am being forced to drop down in weight due to shoulder pain (30 years of hockey and other abuse will do that). With a ~32" draw any bow marked 60#@28" will become a 70#er by the time I reach anchor. I shoot my Howatt Hunter the best out of the 19 bows I have - it is also the heaviest I currently have - measuring 67#@31". Alas, I can hardly get to anchor with it any more as I get a sharp pain in my shoulder (A\\C joint) at about 3/4 draw. It's easier to drop down in weight than risk permanent damage.

[Ron LaClair]

I dug out some of my old heavy spined cedars. Acme Premium Supremes. A 23/64th parallel arrow spined 85-90# with 125gr point weighed 630gr. A 23/64 tapered to 5/16 shaft weighed 600gr. A 5/16 Sweetland Forgewood spined at 90# weighed 730gr. I shot these arrows out of 80# + bows.

Heavy spined Cedars are not that much heavier than lighter spined cedars and out of a heavy bow 80# or more bow they fly really flat....probably about like a modern lighter weight bow with high performance string shooting a light carbon arrow    

pucci, you ask about a  book, there was a thread here awhile back titled I think, "Ron LaClairs autobiography"....I'm workin on it    :D

[BamBooBender]

Thanks for weighing in on this ron (pun intended), it sheds a lot of light hearing from one of the guys on the list (which btw, was just off the top of my head and I'm sure there are others).

[Rich LaBombard]

I also wanted to thank Ron for sharing his thoughts: Thank you, Ron!