Longbow n00b - First Experience Today - Need Guidance

[ChuckC]

There is more to this story.  Those arrows are too stiff for SOME longbows.  In this case, I am adding that the amount of cut in the riser will change the whole game.  If that bow was cut past center to the point of being center shot (and you said the arrows were cut, but I may have missed how long they were cut to, that matters), it will likely take a much stiffer shaft than one that is not even close to center shot.

I have an RER longbow ( 63#) that is cut to near center and it can have only limited weight on the front of .340s to bare shaft, while another bow, an ASL ( 57#) is not even close to center cut and it bare shafts perfectly with .500 shafts, a 50 gr insert and a 175 to 200 grain head.

A lot of things are at play here for you to understand.
ChuckC

[KentuckyTJ]

Welcome from Kentucky!

Agree with the too stiff thoughts. A few things. Never cut a whole lot of arrows at a time. Always cut just one to start off. Also agree with the getting with someone close by and bare shafting to start with.

[deputy865]

Originally posted by ChuckC:
There is more to this story.  Those arrows are too stiff for SOME longbows.  In this case, I am adding that the amount of cut in the riser will change the whole game.  If that bow was cut past center to the point of being center shot (and you said the arrows were cut, but I may have missed how long they were cut to, that matters), it will likely take a much stiffer shaft than one that is not even close to center shot.

I have an RER longbow ( 63#) that is cut to near center and it can have only limited weight on the front of .340s to bare shaft, while another bow, an ASL ( 57#) is not even close to center cut and it bare shafts perfectly with .500 shafts, a 50 gr insert and a 175 to 200 grain head.

A lot of things are at play here for you to understand.
ChuckC

The arrows were all cut at once by the archery shop guy. He also did the inserts, which I'm unsure on what weight they are. They looked fairly long though.

He cut the arrows to, and if I'm remembering right, 30". He didn't take much off, said he preferred a longer arrow and left it at that. I didn't say anything because I knew I could always have more chopped off it need. So for arguments sake, lets say they are in fact 29" (because I know for certainty they aren't any shorted). This way if they are longer, I can have them cut.

Without having someone watch me, it was hard to say where the arrows were flying. When they hit the target, they stuck perfectly straight to the point where I could hardly see them... but when shooting, it looks like they fish tailed to the left. I'll pay closer attention when I fling some today.

[sticksnstones]

Is the total arrow weight over 500 grains? Anything below that might void your warranty, I'm not sure on Bear's fine print.

Second, did you confirm that these are feathers and not vanes? Those will cauze a left kick on a right hand bow and it's the most common mistake I see when someone with trad gear gets outfitted at a box store or wheel shop.
Thom

[AZ_Longbow]

Longbows need more GPP than a compound, 9-10gpp is the norm it seems. with my 65lb longbow I shoot 300gr points/broadheads with a 31.5 inch GT 300 velocity. that puts me right at 596-600 with wrap and feathers. not sure what your arrows weigh but be sure you are up there, don't want that bow to shake apart on you.
After that you need to practice, get your form down or you could just be chasing your tail as far as spines.

[deputy865]

They are feathers, not vanes.

How can I measure my "GPP"?

[AZ_Longbow]

Do you have a scale? if not look on the arrow it should tell you GPI and that's grains per inch. add that up then the weight of the point, weight of the nock, the insert, and then the feathers, even how much glue can add up weight.
you may have to look up what kind you have on the interwebs. my guesstimate is about 465gr max...
Your looking at 8.45 grains per pound. That's usually just within the acceptable range. depends on what the bow maker says though. I am a believer in the 9-10 grains per pound rule though. it settles the bow down, makes it a lot quitter and less shock. all that energy gets absorbed in to the arrow for use down range.
you could add another 25-75 grains up front so a 150-200 grain point and  be under 10gpp.
3rivers sells a field point test kits, I recommend getting them. makes life so much easier.

[DennyK]

deputy865, Welcome to Trad Gang. Before you get your pocket book out post what you need and or questions here first. Alot of the archery shops of this day and age are hi tech, and probably do not have a clue on how to set up and tune a traditional bow. Have fun on your traditional journey!        


Denny

[sticksnstones]

Glad they at least got the feathers right for you!

Since that shaft is 10.3 grains per inch you have about 300 in shaft material. 125 on the point, probably about 15 for an aluminum screw in adapter and about 25 in feathers and a nock.  I'm guessing that shot in the dark at 465 grains is about right. This is why I suggested a 250 grain point to get your arrow up into the safe range. The extra grains would also help a bit with that shaft being way too stiff in spine for a 55# longbow.

Just because they would be safe there doesn't mean they will be even close to right for that bow. This will just give you something to plink with while you are working on your next arrow setup.
Thom

You can make the .340's work, as long as they are still near full length, and you will have to add quite a bit of weight to the front end via heavy insert, or heavy point, or a combination of the two.

Bisch

[Charlie Lamb]

Loading up the front end of the arrow is not a bad thing at all. Matter of fact it is a good thing. As previously mentioned it aids penetration on game, makes for a very stable arrow and adds valuable weight to the total arrow.

[Charlie Lamb]

Loading up the front end of the arrow is not a bad thing at all. Matter of fact it is a good thing. As previously mentioned it aids penetration on game, makes for a very stable arrow and adds valuable weight to the total arrow.

[damascusdave]

I shot for over a year before I even started to think about hunting...the International Bowhunter Education Program emphasizes archer first and bowhunter later...unless you are an exceptional archer it is going to take you a while to be hunt ready with repeatable and consistent form under pressure...this is not at all like shooting a wheel bow with a release

DDave

[damascusdave]

You should be able to shoot good groups with arrows that are far stiffer than will give good flight...I have some old Grand Slam 2317's that are my go to arrows for just fooling around shooting indoors...I can sometime see them going nearly sideways downrange but they still end up in a pretty good group at 20 yards when I do my part...when I am shooting at game I want arrows that bareshaft very well (within reason)...when I am shooting inanimate objects, which is what you ought to be focusing on at this point in your traditional journey, it matters little

DDave

[Pheonixarcher]

Pm sent.

I'm sure we can get those arrows flying reasonably well.

[deputy865]

As it stands now I'm getting some fairly good groupings from the 10-12 yard range. I'm slowly inching myself back in range, but I do not totally feel comfortable at this point to deer hunt with it. I'll probably small game hunt with it for fun, but that is as far as I'm willing to go at this point.

Great support on this website. I'm blown away by the amount of people willing to help!

Lost one of my pretty carbons last night... Refuse to give up on the search as it didn't go far, but it disappeared....

[Stump73]

Order you a field point test kit from bigjim. Youll a get a range pionts 2 each of 125 to 250gr  points. When find out what point weight you need then order that weight. You could also order 100gr inserts as well but be sure and order BigJim's hotmelt glue. That way you can easily change out inserts.