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Author Topic: Nock Height?  (Read 864 times)

Offline AkDan

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Re: Nock Height?
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2015, 07:46:00 PM »
contact point is dead center of the nock. All nocks fall in this category regardless of make.   There are very very very few differences in nocks on the market these days when you cut the OAD in half you're talking thousandths of an inch.  Take into account MOST I'd bet 90% or more of folks are shooting similar nock profiles (regardless of make here).

Ie a 5/16 classic vs a 5/16 snap on is going to be almost exactly or within a few thou over half the diameter. Maybe 10 thou but I doubt it.   Remember we're only concerned with HALF of the diameter when it comes to the nock.  ANd that's assuming nock size is the same or smaller than shaft size.  Most nocks are smaller than shaft sizes these days, I haven't seen one that is the same size at the throat since the stotler mids.   EVERY nock is going to contact on the dead center point, so everything below is void relative to nock over all nock heigth.  I still have my old mercs and stotler mids and those are slightly tapered if I remember right.  And even with the stotlers they may push the nock up a tad more than a bohning classic but 1/16" of an inch it wont do.  MAYBE 1/32...maybe!

I'd guess less  1/64, or less! over all..  

NOW....

IF you are making nocks say horn nocks or glued on self nocks etc.   Than sure its possible that the diameter is going to play some roll that is going to be noticeable in your over all nock placement.   Put some large ears on for shooting  a large nock so you can shoot Turkish style, again a pinch style release..than again yes its possible.   Pinch  like Lars is doing, not thumb rings like Yumi's.

But reality is unless you're putting a tree on the back end its not likely going to have any or very very minimal effect.  I'd bet there is less than 1% of guys using nocks larger than the diameter of the shaft at the throat, and again 1% of folks shooting same diameter nocks at the throat as the same diameter of the shaft.   and I'd also make the guess that 95% of those shooting shot some form of tapered nock like a classic, snap on, old merc, etc.    

So take a guy shooting a tapered or barrel tapered 11/32 shaft with a 5/16 nock.   1/4 over is not out of the question.  half of 11/32 is .172, which is less than 1/4 at .25.  Half of 5/16 is .156.  These numbers are based on the ideal that the nock is the same diameter of the shaft.   Nock off a few more though for the tapered flats where your nock sits and it can be even lower yet.  

SO its POSSIBLE to see a lower than normal nock height on some setups.   Take in other factors, tiller, bow design, rest material/placement (not everyone shoots off the shelf), etc etc...  IT IS POSSIBLE and I personally have proven it!     That doesn't mean its NORMAL!  I agree 100% it is unlikely you'll see anything below 1/4 very often....or even at 1/4.  

I've also seen guys who measure with thick rests, like seal skin, or unsheared Velcro or a host of others, make references to those lower nocks.   Guys shooting leather or a hard flipper style are able to get 100% accurate numbers.  This is where my 1/8 figure came from, a bow shot (not mine personally), with a high material.   He was a pretty good buddy of mine so we had this very conversation over a lot of years.

My current bow is like most at 3/8.  But in 25 years I've shot and owned a LOT of sticks that didn't fit any mold.  A Robertson longbow in particular still to this day bugs the crap out of me!   Great bow, didn't fit my shooting style!  

now....in the end does it really matter?  NO!

The only thing that matters is arrow flight!   that's it, its really that simple.   If it flies so be it, should it or should it not is a good campfire discussion or range fun time, semantecs are just that, hypothetical equations.   I enjoy all of it.

Offline ChuckC

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Re: Nock Height?
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2015, 11:42:00 PM »
Keep going.  Why are concerned only with half the diameter ?  Unless you are talking of the upper half.

The contact point of the nock to the string may be dead center, but to the nocking point, which influences its location on the string it is on top surface of the nock, not the center of the shaft.  

Even if the nock had no thickness at all it centers the shaft, which gives it some height to start with, yes, half the diameter of the shaft, but it does have thickness, so the top of the nock, that portion that contacts the nocking point, be it crimp on or string, is thicker than half the diameter of the arrow.

Using your numbers above the half diameter of the shaft being .172 plus half the diameter of the nock if it is 5/16" (the upper half above center of the shaft) being .156 totals .328, which is more than the .250 (quarter inch you spoke of).

Same goes for a 5/16 shaft.

I guess i am not understanding.
ChuckC

Offline **DONOTDELETE**

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Re: Nock Height?
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2015, 11:53:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gutfish:
Thanks for all the info I am shooting split finger (guess i should have mentioned that) Currently i have it at 1/8" not knowing any better because of my compound background. It doenst seem to be shooting terrible but i will mess around with it and try some different heights.
Just do some paper tuning, and adjust from there.

A good starting point is have the arrow sloping down hill to the rest about 1/8" from 90 degrees...

Shaft diameter and type of rest will change the actual measurement, but who cares?. I always tie my nock on about 1/2"-5/8" using a bow square, and adjust her down from there.... you got it bro...Just "mess with it." till she flies right. that's what most guys do.

Offline AkDan

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Re: Nock Height?
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2015, 01:15:00 AM »
not understanding or I'm doing a terrible job explaining LOL!  nothing new for me, my English is ATLEAST 2nd to my jibberish.  I know what I'm trying to say, but at this point I guess its not worth trying to explain it, it just aint coming out right?!?  

you don't add half the shaft plus half the nock, you're only worried about what's above the center point of the nock, half the nock  The shaft diameter is irrelevant to a degree. The half numbers are if and only if the nock was exactly the same diameter of the shaft, which it is not generally speaking.    But again that varies.   I thought I did explain that in detail as best I could.  So using the numbers, and in reality a nock can easily sit below the level of the shaft,and generally does, enough that the OA brace height can be lower than one could ever imagine.  not with all setups, not even with most setups, but it certainly isn't abnormal.  Normal was stated and I agree hole heartedly that being that low is NOT normal, but that doesn't mean its wrong either as I have proven on an old doug knight longbow I owned and wish I had never sold!  If the bow wants it, feed it and go on your marry way!

In the end, really it doesn't matter, NP is what it is, and that's all that matters.   Playing semantics isn't worth the headaches anymore after this many years. I tried with spine, and continue for some morbid reasons unknown to myself.  Though I do it less and less.   Sometimes its easier to let people learn their own road to freedom than trying to steer the wheels to get them there...though its generally made my life easier as a arrow builder to assist.  Its the main reason I stopped building strings and arrows.     Unfortunatly the trad world believes that things are hard and fast when it comes to numbers.  In reality there is so many nuances that we have no control, or some we do, that you could pull what little hair I have left out trying to figure out some setups, when others just easily fall into place.  

Start high, come down and find the sweet spot and don't play semantics about what it SHOULD be..let the bow tell you what it wants and to heck with the should be's.  Just like in finding the right spine, and to a lesser degree BH (though there is obvious no no's, to high to low, with this one).

Offline old_goat2

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Re: Nock Height?
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2015, 03:39:00 AM »
Yep, numerous makes of bows, all shot split finger, all at 5/8"
David Achatz
CPO USN Ret.
Various bows, but if you see me shooting, it's probably a Toelke in my hand!

Offline gutfish

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Re: Nock Height?
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2015, 07:02:00 AM »
Awesome guys, lots of good information here. I will shoot bare shaft where im at and adjust from there. Thanks for all the info!

Offline huronhunter

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Re: Nock Height?
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2015, 07:32:00 AM »
It will also depend on your release . Do you have your pluck in order ?

Offline ChuckC

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Re: Nock Height?
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2015, 08:00:00 AM »
That's OK Dan,  

I get confused easily anymore.  Maybe over a campfire some day we can discuss and use nature's chalkboard (the dirt) to draw pic's and discuss further.  We are probably saying the same thing.
ChuckC

Offline Sirius Black

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Re: Nock Height?
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2015, 03:36:00 PM »
1/2" for me. Split finger, longbow and recurve. Aluminum and carbon arrows.
Wisconsin Bowhunters Association - Life Member

Offline damascusdave

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Re: Nock Height?
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2015, 04:00:00 PM »
People seem to be trying to make this into rocket science...I am pretty sure it is not...if not sure I err a bit, maybe an 1/8 inch on the high side

DDave
I set out a while ago to reduce my herd of 40 bows...And I am finally down to 42

Offline AkDan

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Re: Nock Height?
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2015, 11:31:00 PM »
Chuck, you're on!   I may have to head your way for some GL steelie action in the not so distant future!

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