Tuning question

[troubldstranger]

I seem to be running in circles here, so maybe someone here can shed some light:

I have been trying to bareshaft tune my setup, and no matter where I move my nocking point, I seem to be getting "noc high."  From my understanding, that should be the sign to move my nocking point lower.  This is what I tried at first and it seemed to get slightly worse until I finally heard contact with my bow.  I thought I understood and figured that I must be very low and that I have to move my nocking point up the string.  Flight gets better as I work up, but then starts getting worse again before I come to a level arrow or bullet hole (if I shoot through paper).

Is it possible that shooting off of the shelf will always show a noc high arrow? What am I missing?

If you need it to answer, I am shooting a Navajo Bows Apache (r/d longbow) off of the shelf, one above and two below with glove, about 54# at my drawlength (28.5) and centershot Beman Carbon arrows.  

I seem to have tuned to get a left/right straight on, but no luck on the up/down.

[Alexander Traditional]

You said it was getting better as you went up the string. Did you mark where it was at it's best? All of my longbows are at 5/8" and do very well.

[MCS]

Your arrow might be hitting the shelf kicking up and giving you a false high reading. Bring your knock point back up.

[troubldstranger]

MCS - that is what I figured after I thought I heard it hit wood, so that is where I started heading up the string

Alexander - best was between 1/2 and 5/8ths above, but I never got the "bullethole" that I was expecting before the noc starting kicking up again.

[AZ_Longbow]

How long are your fletch? What's the brace height?

[troubldstranger]

Brace height is at 8 inches as recommended  by the bowyer.  3 slightly helical right wing 5 inch fletchings

[Bladepeek]

I've been shooting a bunch of my bows that were being neglected. Last Thursday I got my favorite RER XR out again had a terrible nock low condition. I readjusted the nocking point and found I had to crank it all the way up to 3/4" to get decent flight. I've never had to put a nocking point that high. I don't believe the bow has changed and the arrows are the same, so I have to think something has changed in my form. This may take a while to sort out   :(  

Don't rule out some pressure you may be putting on the arrow with your index finger, or torquing of the string.

[moebow]

"...but I never got the "bullethole" that I was expecting before the noc starting kicking up again."

Sounds like you are shooting bare shafts through paper??  Don't.  Paper tune with fletched, and/or bare shaft along with fletched  for finding bare shafts that hit with fletched.

Bare shafts are just too sensitive to the slightest form error to be good indicators through paper.

Arne

[stonewall]

slap some feathers on them arrows and put your knock pt about 5/8 and shoot and have fun.

[slowbowjoe]

Yes to all of the above.

Form issues ( high elbow, finger pressure) will affect the reading, even when it's as good as will get for the bow.

from my (ongoing) epeirence

[9 Shocks]

could be you are flexing the shaft into the bow shelf with a high elbow and actually bend the shaft at full draw causing downward pressure at release and its flexing and popping off the shelf.  But everyone else has made great suggestions.  Keep at it!

[troubldstranger]

Thanks for all of the suggestions, I was thinking it could be form related but was too proud to admit it.  I just thought it was odd that I could never get a noc low reading and was wondering if it was typical of longbows. Just an ornery archer!

Thanks

[Bowjunkie]

It sounds like the bottom limb is too strong relative to how you shoot.

If not balanced in strength relative to how you hold the bow and string, the arrow nock moves towards the stronger limb during the draw (relative to the shelf), and then moves back, very quickly of course, upon release. This can inflict the tail end of the arrow with porpoising... in this case, tail high to start as it comes off the bow. If it's bad enough, it can be very difficult to 'correct' simply by jacking the nock point up. But you can try altering where you apply pressure with your bow hand too. Try a high pressure point, then try healing it, see if anything makes a difference.

[savagelh]

Do you hold the bow vertical. I cant mine and was chasing a nock high tear that was actually weak spine.

[mahantango]

Try two nock points, one above and one below. The nock slipping down the string at release can cause a kick up off the shelf. Just eliminates one more possibility. Also agree don't waste your time trying to shoot bare shafts through paper unless you're a machine.

[Jmatt1957]

may I suggest that you put a small piece of leather,a match stick or cut a piece of one of those plastic tie wraps under your rest where the arroe touches. this will give you a little more shelf clearance. helps when your release is little off. I also have a thin shim behind my side plate.