Hill ASL draw and arrow length questions

[Learner]

Hello all:

I'm getting ready to place an order for my first longbow from Craig at HHA.

Therefore I have a question for those of you who shoot both recurve and straight gripped, flat ASL (and who can shoot both well):  

--   do you lose measured draw length when shooting the ASL versus the recurve?

I have heard that I will lose from 1 to 1.5" of draw length.  Since I draw 28" with my recurves, that means my ASL draw length will be from 26.5" to 27".  Is that your experience as well?

I plan on ordering some wood arrows from Craig at the same time that I place my bow order, and I would prefer to have the points installed by them.  I had figured I'd have them cut to my normal length (29.5"). But maybe I should order them shorter? Or should I should taper the ends and install the points myself?

Along with this then comes the question as to how long of an arrow should be used with an ASL.  Does the typical rough rule of thumb (1 to 1.5" longer than the draw length, before tuning) hold up with POC wood arrows?

Thanks for any wisdom you can share with me.

Best wishes,
Frank

[ChuckC]

Really, truly.... get the bow first and measure using an old arrow.  At issue here.... the distance from  your hand to the back of the bow is often less on an ASL ( not always...) than on a recurve or simiilar handled bow, PLUS, the way you hold an ASL is very often with a low or very low wrist, as compared to a high wrist for many recurves.  But you need to see for yourself just what is gonna happen using that bow.  On top of that.... until you determine what sort of hold works for you on that new bow, you may change three or four times.

The solid answer is to get full length shafts and cut them yourself.  Learn how to do this.  It isn't that difficult and it doesn't take a lot of fancy equipment.  If that is not in the picture, slow down and do the best you can.
Good luck
CHuckC

[Deno]

Frank
Cutting and installing points is pretty simple  as Chuck said.  Good time to practice on some older arrows.
Deno

[Learner]

Thanks, guys.

Ok, I have decided to cut the arrows myself.  I already do this with my carbon arrows, anyway.

My recurves have what looks like a mid-wrist grip.  But my style is low wrist (I keep the pressure on the heel of my thumb).

Best wishes,
Frank

[two4hooking]

Wood recovers from paradox differently then other materials and I have found a shorter shaft recovers faster.  I cut my arrows as short as possible by using "Net arrow length"  (if your draw length is 28 inches the tip of your field point is 28 inches and you draw the back of the head up onto the shelf".

Hill used to draw his .38 casing blunts to the back of the rim of the case.

Of course BH arrows are cut to allow the head to come back to my finger and additional 1/2-3/4 inch for me.

If you are just getting your form down and want practice arrows I would not sweat it too much at this point so long as the length and spine are compatible with the DW of your bow.  You may find things change over time as you solidify your form.

Wood arrows go with Hill bows like Peanut butter and jelly.... so if you stick with it and the wood you will be making your own arrows just how you like them.  I would not sweat it yet....

[Orion]

As Chuck points out, you may or may not lose draw length switching to a longbow.  Most recurve grips are thinner at the throat, say 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 inches deep, vs about 2 inches or a little more for a Hill, so you could actually add a quarter inch or so in that regard.  

On the other hand, a Hill is also lower wrist than the medium grip you have now, and is likely to shorten your draw a bit more than 1/4 inch.  

I'm a bit puzzled by your definition of low wrist style as (pressure on the heel of my thumb). Low wrist is actually pressure on the heel of your palm at least equal to the pressure on the web of your fore finger and thumb.

Regardless, I shoot both, but haven't really checked to see if my draw length changes.

I cut all my arrows (carbon and wood) 1 inch longer than my draw length and then tune with point weight and/or side plate thickness modifications.  Since I've been at this a long time, I start with a spine that for me is very close to being correct, if not right on, to begin with.

Agree with Chuck and Deno as well regarding playing around with some of your old/junker arrows first to find what spine is going to work for you before you buy.

Some people shoot longbows with the same form as they shoot recurves with some compromises for the grip difference.   If you really get into the Hill shooting philosophy as described by John Schulz the method as suggested by John will be a close start.  Take a yard stick, place it on your breast bone and reach your hands out together on the yard stick, NO STRETCHING, keep your shoulders relaxed, read the inches.

[Learner]

Originally posted by pavan:
Some people shoot longbows with the same form as they shoot recurves with some compromises for the grip difference.   If you really get into the Hill shooting philosophy as described by John Schulz the method as suggested by John will be a close start.  Take a yard stick, place it on your breast bone and reach your hands out together on the yard stick, NO STRETCHING, keep your shoulders relaxed, read the inches.

I think I have a weird body type then (quite likely). I know that my fingers are short.

My draw with my recurves is comfortably between 27.5 - 28.0". If I stretch almost 29".  I know when I've reached my optimal draw length because my draw shoulder settles comfortably in place, and becomes a "third anchor point" of sorts for me.

 But when I use this measurement method you describe I'm about 25.5" or less?.

Something seems amiss. Please enlighten me

Best wishes,
Frank.

Not at all, that leads me to a clue of your bone structure as well.  As Schulz stated body forward, head tilted, anchor at the corner of the mouth.  The anchor will vary, the head tilt will vary, the body forward will vary, the amount of bow arm bend will vary.  The next step will be a PM.

[Learner]

Thank you for the PM, and your help, Larry.

God Bless,
Frank