UEFOC

[katman]

Latest try with uefoc. black eagle x-impact .400, 370 point/outsert, 30.16% foc, 605gr.

Glad winter is about done, running out of combo's I want to try, lol.

[larry f]

Is there any easy way to cut the carbon shafts without spending a bunch of money.
Thanks

[lt-m-grow]

Originally posted by larry f:
Is there any easy way to cut the carbon shafts without spending a bunch of money.
Thanks

I have done many with a dremel tool with the cut-off wheel.  I then square up the ends on a belt sander.  Both the dremel and the sander have many uses beyond this so even if you have to acquire one or the other, it is money well spent.

BTW:  There isn't a job worth doing unless you can buy a tool for it :-)

[KyRidgeRunner]

I've learned so much from this thread guys!  Thanks to everyone that contributed.  One of the many reasons I love trad gang.

[Shadowhnter]

Originally posted by larry f:
Is there any easy way to cut the carbon shafts without spending a bunch of money.
Thanks

Big Jim carries a mini Drill Master cut off saw. The blade is so tiny and cute at 2"! Ive got one I picked up at a big box hardware store, and I can tell you with the abrasive wheel, it gets the job done very well. I think its like $35-$50 if I remember right...

[JimB]

"JimB what do the nock collars weight on those arrows.I'm still using super glue and braid fishing line for my nock collars."

Abe,it's 1/4" of 2013 Platinum shaft,so,2.25 grains.

[vintage archer]

Building a EFOC some times can be a daunting and exhausting experience. Some archers have spent considerable time trying to achieve what they consider a  perfect arrow.  Others here have used the experience to have a better understanding of the sport that they love and trying to find the upper limits of their equipment .  

How far a person wants to carry this passion is up to the individual .

A person can use their existing arrows and experiment with using different points and feathers in order to improve FOC of the arrow they are already shooting. Any improvement in FOC that leads to improved flight or penetration will be a plus. Others may choose to start from scratch in order to attain a high UEFOC arrow for their hunting needs

I personally have spent a lot of time trying to learn about arrows,  I have and continue enjoy experimenting. There are some personal hints  or axioms that I pass on that may save frustration.  These hints are from my experience or others have shared with me .

1.First and foremost FOC can improve arrow flight and penetration in soft tissue. FOC does not according to Dr. Ashby studies increase penetration in bone. To breach bone the total arrow weight should approach or surpass 650 grains.  Weight of the arrow is the most critical criteria. Weight should not be replaced by FOC.  The ideal is trying to get 650 grains total weight with a high percentage of the total arrow weight in the arrow front. That is why they call it FOC.

  http://www.tuffhead.com/education/ashby2.html  

2. As mentioned By Abe Penner when selecting an arrow try and find one that is high in spine and low in weight /inch , This would be an arrow which you have a better chance of attaining a high FOC .

3 While the trend of arrow diameters is to “skinny” arrows which are good for penetration (less drag), They are not necessary to attain FOC .  if you use a broadhead that has Ferrule. large enough to make a hole for the arrow to follow through. Arrows referred to 5/16 and in lower range of weight per inch  work well.

 A easy arrow to start building a UEFOC  with is Carbon express Max Red . They say the Max Red 250 and 350 will cover bows 40 lbs to 90 lbs .   http://www.carbonexpressarrows.com/archery/hunting-arrows/maxima--red--  

An arrow like that will allow a considerable range of variables. These arrows are approximately 5/16 O.D. and weigh 9grn. /inch for the MR-350 or less if using the MR-250.
There is some advantage to using a 5/16 arrow as there is a good selection of inserts and adaptors for this arrow. However, more are coming on to the market for the skinny arrows. There are several arrow manufactures mentioned in this thread all have proven to have benefits and show good FOC results. I only mention the Max Red as an arrow that I have found easy to tune If your draw length is at least 27 inches and you shoot a bow with 5o lbs draw weight probably the MR -350 will work at least that would be a place to start.

4.  Figure out what kind and weight broadhead you desire to use for all your hunting and build your arrow around that. Don’t worry about over kill in your hunting arrow. Better to have too much arrow than not enough.

5. It is surprising how well a UEFOC arrows flies and arrows  700+ grains total weight can be shot accurately out to 30 yards ,or more ,depending on skill of the archer ,The loss of  trajectory in a UEFOC arrow is not as fast as most think.  

6. The ideal arrow for medium size game will have a UEFOC of 30 % plus and weigh around the 650 grain total weight.

7. The front of the arrow is not the only place to look when working on any FOC arrow. By removing knock collars, wraps and reducing the size and the number of feathers UEFOC can be raised several percentage points
One grain of weight removed from the rear of an arrow is the equivalent of adding 5 to 7 grains in the front. I was able to increase my UEFOC by 2% by removing the manufacture’s knock collar, wrap and going to three 2.5 inch feathers. These are all potential places one can experiment.

8 Build the arrow front first than experiment on back portion testing just as when experimenting with front weight making adjustments slowly one at a time

9 .My personal arrow arrows are Carbon Express 250 or Max Red 350. They are cut to aprox. 30 .25 inches. My draw is 28” on a good day.

They have a 100 grain brass insert …. 75 grain adaptor….300 grain point ….and a 25 grain footing. A total weight of 500 grn. up front  and a total arrow weight of 760+_ grns.

I use no knock collars and no wrap. I use three 2.5 inch straight fletch A&A feathers.  My UEFOC is 32. 5 %

I use this arrow in multiple three-piece takedown longbows with equal accuracy.

A.   Cari-Bow Silver fox64’ 54# 28 “
B.   Dryad – Orion ACS CG  64”  55#@28”
 C.  Chuck Jones “Royal” 62 “  53 #@ 28


10. A good write up by Troy Breeding can be found at
  http://www.tuffhead.com/education/tuning%20the%20efoc%20shaft.html  

Follow Troy’s methods and you will end up with a nice shooting arrow!

When cutting carbon arrows as asked by Larry Fischer a Dremel tool with a carbide wheel works great. Dremel sells the wheel as a accessories wit a arbor that could be used in a standard electric drill.


11. To calculate your FOC a calculator is available at

  http://www.tuffhead.com/education/formulas_FOC.html

[Hermon]

Well I got a new bow recently and decided that I would try to build a UEFOC arrow for it from the start.  It is 45# @ 28" and I draw around 27"-27.5".  

I purchased some single shafts (Victory RIP and RIP XV) in 500, 400 and 350 spine.  My thinking was that the 500 would probably be to soft spine, and the 350 too stiff, and would probably end up using the 400 with whatever point weight it took to tune properly.  

The 500 was too soft with any significant amount of front weight just as I had suspected.  I then went to the 400 spine shafts.  I could not get rid of a nock high/left flight with several different points.  Even with the RIP with standard aluminum insert and points down to 175 grains.  

I then decided to get out the 350 spine RIP XV shaft and try it.  I had the Victory 60 grain stainless steel insert with a 100 grain brass insert behind it.  With a 225 grain point the arrow flew great.  I never would have thought that it would take that stiff an arrow out of a 47# bow.  Total arrow weight of the bare shaft is around 575 grains with a FOC of 31%.  

I am looking forward to shooting the bare shaft some more this weekend to confirm that the spine is correct and then fletching it up and trying it.  

This experiment had been fun so far.

Update.  Shot some more tonight and tried 300 grain points and felt like the flight was even better.  650 grains and about 34% FOC, 14 gpp.

[G Hutch]

How long is your arrow from the back of point to the throat of the nock?

[Hermon]

29"

[highlow]

I realize one can eventually get an arrow with UEFOC for a fairly lightweight bow, say a 46#er +/- a couple of pounds but question the wisdom of doing so. My thinking is that the extreme weight of the final product is too much resulting in unacceptable drop after only a few yards. I realize these arrows are used in hunting scenarios ranging in the 20 to 30 yard distance. Persoanlly, I want an arrow in the 11-12 gpp range with FOC of around 20%.

JMO for what it's worth.

[Hermon]

David- you make a very good point.  I am not sure that I will end up hunting with such a heavy arrow but am just wanting to experiment with this and see for myself.  I have some 500 spine FMJ's that fly great out of this bow also that fit the specs you listed.

[dennis502]

highlow-

High FOC numbers don't necessarily require high arrow weight. Note in my arrow "recipe" on page 3 of this thread that I'm at 27% with a relatively lightweight 450 grain total arrow weight. Using your 46# weight at 11-12 gpp, you could easily achieve a 30+% FOC.

[highlow]

Thanks Dennis. Will consult your "recipe". Sounds good.

[JimB]

I shoot 14 GPP arrows and like them.At 20 yds there's no noticeable  difference.There is a little difference at 25 yds.There is more at 30 but that's my point on distance.Like most,I rarely take 30 yard shots at game,but when I do,the point verifies my hold.At 25,the point is 4" under.

I started delving in to this stuff in 2008,when I was having shoulder issues and drew a coveted moose tag.I didn't get to try my first setup on a moose but there was a marked improvement on other game and in my own,off the cuff,penetration tests.

I got rid of my 60-66# bows and went to 50-53# ones.With a combination of heavy arrows,high FOC and 2 blade,single bevel broadheads.I'm getting at least twice the penetration that I did with the 60+# bows,possibly more.I haven't tested the 35% FOC for penetration,alongside my older sets yet but there is a visible difference in targets.

The trajectory and speed wouldn't suit some but I got used to it in one shooting session and the gains in stability,wind bucking capabilities and penetration are worth the tradeoff,especially at 67,as it's doubtful I'll ever go up in poundage.

[vintage archer]

I think the secret to shooting a UEFOC or heavy arrow is to practice with that weight arrow all the time. (Particular if you shoot instinctively.)      
Jim B touched on this in his last post.

 I know some shoot one arrow and bow set -up for 3-D and another for hunting. I have never seen the reasoning behind this unless 3-d is you main motivation or sport.
I guess my practice is all centered around the hunt. Keeping hunting  shoots to a reasonable distance and practice shots at longer distance helps a lot.