Stump shooting in Michigan . FYI

[Deno]

Graps
I didn't read anything about bows, only firearms.
I agree with Mike Vines advice, then again Army MPs are level headed individuals.  Drive on MV.
Deno

Originally posted by Graps:
 http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366_54559_10402-397116--20,00.html  

  http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-31154_35728---,00.html  

Note that the first link only applies to designated state game and wildlife areas (not necessarily all state and federal land) and appears to only apply to "firearms."  In MI, bows are not considered firearms.


  "Firearm" means any weapon which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by action of an explosive."


 
Second link appears to only be in reference to commercial operations and bonafide "events."  Having a group of people meet for a stump shoot does not appear to qualify as a hosted "event."

[Roger Norris]

Originally posted by Mike Vines:
 

Originally posted by Graps:
     http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366_54559_10402-397116--20,00.html      

      http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-31154_35728---,00.html      

First link only speaks of firearms, AND is not a Statute, but just a list of "Rules".

Second link appears to only refer to "Commercial Use" and is also not a link to a Statute.

I would suggest this...Contact your local Game Warden, (DO NOT CALL LANSING!!!), explain to them what you are wanting to do, invite them to join everyone and that you have a spare longbow and arrows for him/her to join in the fun, then ask him/her if they see a problem with it.  (I suggest this because I have done it in the past and it has worked as expected).  Game Wardens are our friends, and it is a good thing when people come to them with an issue that can be solved by just a simple question.  Honestly, they are really good people and like to know that the public thinks highly enough of them to seek them out for guidance.

Get your answer straight from the one who will be enforcing the laws that, to be honest, we have no idea exist or not.  Don't try to be a Google Lawyer (I mean that in a nice way).  Let them know you don't want to break the law and are just looking for guidance.  

Please let us know how that works out.  I'm going to postulate that it will be a favorable outcome. [/b]

Mike, I agree with your intention but you are wrong. I personally know a guy who was ticketed for taking a warm up shot with his bow. Safely, just outside of the parking area on state land.

I myself was in the middle of a swamp on state land , rabbit hunting with a .22 pistol. I missed a couple running bunnies with a flurry of shots. When I got back to my truck, "The Man" was waiting for me. He stated that if I had not come out with a beagle he would not have believed my story, and would have ticketed me.

A large organized stump shoot is nothing more than large, organized target practice. Harmless as it may be, they WILL ticket you and it WILL stick.

I don't agree , buit that's the way it is.

[Mike Vines]

Originally posted by Roger Norris:
   

Originally posted by Mike Vines:
   

Originally posted by Graps:
        http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366_54559_10402-397116--20,00.html        

         http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-31154_35728---,00.html        

First link only speaks of firearms, AND is not a Statute, but just a list of "Rules".

Second link appears to only refer to "Commercial Use" and is also not a link to a Statute.

I would suggest this...Contact your local Game Warden, (DO NOT CALL LANSING!!!), explain to them what you are wanting to do, invite them to join everyone and that you have a spare longbow and arrows for him/her to join in the fun, then ask him/her if they see a problem with it.  (I suggest this because I have done it in the past and it has worked as expected).  Game Wardens are our friends, and it is a good thing when people come to them with an issue that can be solved by just a simple question.  Honestly, they are really good people and like to know that the public thinks highly enough of them to seek them out for guidance.

Get your answer straight from the one who will be enforcing the laws that, to be honest, we have no idea exist or not.  Don't try to be a Google Lawyer (I mean that in a nice way).  Let them know you don't want to break the law and are just looking for guidance.  

Please let us know how that works out.  I'm going to postulate that it will be a favorable outcome. [/b]

Mike, I agree with your intention but you are wrong. I personally know a guy who was ticketed for taking a warm up shot with his bow. Safely, just outside of the parking area on state land.

I myself was in the middle of a swamp on state land , rabbit hunting with a .22 pistol. I missed a couple running bunnies with a flurry of shots. When I got back to my truck, "The Man" was waiting for me. He stated that if I had not come out with a beagle he would not have believed my story, and would have ticketed me.

A large organized stump shoot is nothing more than large, organized target practice. Harmless as it may be, they WILL ticket you and it WILL stick.

I don't agree , buit that's the way it is. [/b]

I agree 100% with you Roger, as there  is zero reason to doubt you, because you are as honest as they come,  but With all due respect, neither You, or I, are any longer in the position to enforce any "Law" and things change.  What was once illegal, might full well be legal now. All Im saying is that before declaring something would be "illegal", I would refer back to my last statement about contacting the Local Game Warden if Graps is wanting to find out straight from the one who will either join them in having a great time, or writing them a ticket.  

It would not do anybody justice to make a determination on the legality of anything by making a few mouse clicks.  I say work with those who know, and enforce the laws that are there.  It's the best way to find out the truth.  And NOBODY can argue with the Truth.

[finkm1]

Sounds like a bad conservation officer to me Roger. If you had a valid license, orange and small game was open I would say you were legal. If I would have been issued a ticket, I would have fought it. But the second ticket for telling him what I think of his policing skills....Well I guess I would have to pay that one.  

[Sam McMichael]

Yep, we need MUCH smaller government at all levels.

[Roger Norris]

Originally posted by Mike Vines:
 

Originally posted by Graps:
     http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366_54559_10402-397116--20,00.html      

      http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-31154_35728---,00.html      

First link only speaks of firearms, AND is not a Statute, but just a list of "Rules".

Second link appears to only refer to "Commercial Use" and is also not a link to a Statute.

I would suggest this...Contact your local Game Warden, (DO NOT CALL LANSING!!!), explain to them what you are wanting to do, invite them to join everyone and that you have a spare longbow and arrows for him/her to join in the fun, then ask him/her if they see a problem with it.  (I suggest this because I have done it in the past and it has worked as expected).  Game Wardens are our friends, and it is a good thing when people come to them with an issue that can be solved by just a simple question.  Honestly, they are really good people and like to know that the public thinks highly enough of them to seek them out for guidance.

Get your answer straight from the one who will be enforcing the laws that, to be honest, we have no idea exist or not.  Don't try to be a Google Lawyer (I mean that in a nice way).  Let them know you don't want to break the law and are just looking for guidance.  

Please let us know how that works out.  I'm going to postulate that it will be a favorable outcome. [/b]

I love you Mikey....  

I was just referring to Graps original post where he checked and they said no already.

I also believe it is absolutely an officer discretion thing. You can believe that when I had a cabin up in St Helens, I stump shot my tail off on state land adjacent to my cabin.

And wandering around on state land now with my longbow, I am hunting rabbits....but know for sure I kill more pine cones than bunnies.

It's a dumb rule, especially how it applies to a traditional bowhunter.

But look at it this way, considering officer discretion and all: You may get pulled over for speeding on a rural road, and get a warning. I know I have. But if I call the Sherriff and say "Me and a couple guys are going to drive real fast down D19 today" , you can bet your finest Motor City Machete that they are going to tell you "No", and be there to ticket you should you do it.

To me a more disturbing question...if Graps and crew were rabbit hunting, would they get a ticket?  

Also....are there rules for unloading a crossbow on state land? Because our state now considers that bowhunting.

I swear I'm moving to Alaska....

[bunyan]

We have similar laws against target shooting on state game lands here in pa. Obviously, there are ways around it if you're out stumping. When I was in school and didn't have access to a range for formal practice it was a pain. There's always something in season in the woods, but throw out any sort of formal target and its hard to talk your way out of that, as silly as the laws are.

[Roger Norris]

Originally posted by bunyan:
We have similar laws against target shooting on state game lands here in pa. Obviously, there are ways around it if you're out stumping. When I was in school and didn't have access to a range for formal practice it was a pain. There's always something in season in the woods, but throw out any sort of formal target and its hard to talk your way out of that, as silly as the laws are.

Pretty much my view of it

[finkm1]

Did Daisy get mad at you when you missed that rabbit with the 22 pistol?  

[Roger Norris]

quote:Originally posted by finkm1:
Did Daisy get mad at you when you missed that rabbit with the 22 pistol?    

[Shinnecockfly]

Contacted the Dec here in ny about stump shooting. First off they had no idea what I was talking about having never heard of such a thing, then proceeded to tell me that it's considered target practice which is illegal. So I only stump when it's small game season wearing orange and if I ever was questioned say I saw a squirrel or rabbit.

[crazynate]

Not surprising to hear that about our DNR.  No DNR officers where I stump hunt luckily

[Bladepeek]

I have to agree with Mike on this. In today's world, there are rules/regulations/laws against most anything if you look long enough. As an ex-cop and someone with lots of LEO acquaintances, it usually boils down to relations.

I for one, will be going out stumping. I do have a small game license and will be wearing the required orange and may miss a lot of the rabbits and red squirrels I shoot at, but might, if I'm lucky, come pretty close to a rotted stump, large leaf or pine cone. I do believe if you don't get into a "I'm not doing anything wrong" pushing contest, there will not be a problem. And I have been out in the woods when someone has cut lose with a 20-round mag of .22LR and wished for a conservation officer in the area.

[Steve O]

Originally posted by Bladepeek:


I for one, will be going out stumping. I do have a small game license and will be wearing the required orange and may miss a lot of the rabbits and red squirrels I shoot at, but might, if I'm lucky, come pretty close to a rotted stump, large leaf or pine cone. I do believe if you don't get into a "I'm not doing anything wrong" pushing contest, there will not be a problem.

Well, we finally, after 3 pages, have the correct answer.  

Keep in mind: *Opossum, porcupine, weasel, red squirrel, skunk, ground squirrel, woodchuck, feral swine, feral pigeons, starling and house sparrows may be taken year-round with a valid Michigan hunting license"

[bunyan]

Bladepeek, are you sure that 20 round burst wasn't just Roger Norris missing another bunny?!

[Bladepeek]

Yep. He would never miss that many times  

[Roger Norris]

Oh I sure could.....  

[Anointed Archer]

I will will be right with you Ron! Already have the 25th on my calendar!

[Bladepeek]

Oh come on Roger. We never admit that