Chinese knock offs?!!Guys I need ur opinions!

[Robin Chung]

Originally posted by Crested Finger:
Sounds like an old racist to me. Lots of bigots in the world. Just have to leave them behind and move on with life.

Its normal people acting on their behalf.Im not trying to collect sympathies here,I just wanna make myself better understood!
    Ur American folks are amazing and thats what makes USA a leading country in this world.

[LBR]

To be fair to Robin and his countrymen they are not the first nor will they be the last to copy some other design or creation.

Look around at some of our own American bows and you will see quite a few variations of others original design [saywhat]

And as they say imitations is the greatest form of compliment or something like that.

Not to cause a rift here, but copying of original design is nothing new and will continue to happen.

So has bowyers or inventor of products the best safe guard would be to apply for patent and copy rights.

Yep.  And it's not just bows.

Several years ago, when I made strings for stores and bowyers (I don't anymore), I got a surprise in the mail from a company I was making strings for.  It was a very detailed spec sheet on how they wanted their strings made.  Evidently I wasn't the only one they were ordering from.

It only took a glance to see that the sheet was based entirely on MY strings...from the size of the loops to the length of the twist to the length and placement of the serving to the color code I'd come up with for various string lengths--it was mine to a "T".

Wish I'd kept that spec sheet...may still have it lying around somewhere.  I never said anything to them, even when they stopped ordering without warning or explanation.  

I didn't care that they tried to copy my strings, but it would have been nice to have been asked, or at least given a little bit of recognition for the trouble I went through for them.

[Robin Chung]

Originally posted by Jack Hoyt 75:
Robin, what products were you most interested at Kalamazoo? What type of bow do you shoot? I sold a Centaur to a guy in China once,  I hear they are popular there.

Just stand by your word and don't do cheap knock offs.   Welcome!

I shoot traditional recurves and longbows also barebow(recurve unaided)
 The stuff from Kzoo all appealled to me!

Not bluffing,Iv sold hundreds of bows of different brands a year on my own in China,all imported either from US or Britain.
  Im a natural born salesman,Many hot brands are promoted by me,u could get a line on me whatever     Im well known in Chinese traditional archery/business circle. My chinese nickname is 裸奔张
  Man,U just can't imagine all the hustle and butsle I need to handle with every day!I got an online shop to take care of,I need to interact with foreign bowyers and domestic customer,editing videos,practising shooting,studying english ect...I even converted one of my living room to a warehouse!The chinese marketing is so big!And remember,Not everyone wanna buy cheap stuff and be humiliated by knock offs.Im the guy who only sell high quality and original stuff.Expensive indeed

[zipper bowss]

Originally posted by Crested Finger:
Sounds like an old racist to me. Lots of bigots in the world. Just have to leave them behind and move on with life.

Tyrone, I have seen my bows copied by the far east.It is a very real concern.If you do not want to take my word for it ask, Robin. He has seen it happen himself.  I can assure you that just because a man wants to protect his products and his lively hood. That does NOT make him a racist! I'm curious why it is that just because a man stands up to protect himself he is instantly labeled a racist? Maybe give that some thought.
This is the last I will say on this subject. The only reason I commented at all is so, Robin does not get the wrong impression that race had anything to do with the issue.
Bill

Bill is right, this isn't a matter of race, but it is a matter of law.

The problem with protecting designs is that virtually everything that is being done today with regard to traditional archery equipment has already been done before.  The only things that can be patented are those things that are new and not a part of the body of existing knowledge in their particular field.  When it comes to recurve and longbows, those things are few and far between.  The fact is, every bowyer making bows today is using intellectual property that was "stolen" from someone else.

When it comes to protecting "industrial designs" which are the things that make a particular design unique and attractive, it has to be proven that the design, or anything very similar, has never been used before, and again those are VERY few and far between.  Even if you can prove that you have a totally unique design, and choose to have it registered, the certificate only normally lasts 5 years and then usually only in the country in which it was issued.

[KentuckyTJ]

If you are worried about knock offs get a U.S. and International patent. If you can't get the patent that means your product isn't original.

[McDave]

There is a market for entry level bows that are cheaply made and functional.  Perhaps this is a good thing, as it might attract more people to archery than would otherwise do it.  There is also a market for original bows made by craftsmen, or artists in some cases.  I would no more want a Zipper knockoff than I would want a Rolex knockoff.  If I had the money to buy a Rolex, having a knockoff would be meaningless to me.  If I wanted a cheap watch, I would buy an honestly made cheap watch, not  one that looked like a more expensive one.

The same would be true for me with one of Chad's bowstrings, for a different reason.  Bowstrings are inexpensive enough that why would I want to pay a few dollars less for something that may or may not be equivalent?  The feeling I get from buying a custom made string from someone like Chad is that a person I can call and talk to is making a string from the best material he can find the best he knows how, yesterday, today and tomorrow.  Once I find someone like that, whether he is my dentist, gardener, pool guy or hardware store owner, I will deal with him for the rest of my life without pricing alternatives every time I need something.

Foreign competition is sometimes scary, but not always bad.  For example, in the 50's, we got lazy making cars.  In the '60's and '70's, the Japanese came along and cleaned our clocks.  Now, Ford, for example, has figured out how to make trucks that I prefer to buy over all foreign competition for the type of vehicle I want, and not just because they are made in the USA.  The  same is true for many other kinds of vehicles now made by US car makers.  Foreign competition can also be morally bankrupt, too, when they ride roughshod over our patent and copyright laws, and that needs to be a factor we take into account when we determine on a national level how we are going to deal with those countries in trade and other aspects of life.

To have someone from a foreign country come here and look over our products because they think our products are well made and worthy of emulation is a tribute to those who made them.  That visit might result in them giving us a wake up call some day, but that's life.

[Terry Green]

Crested Finger......BYE!!!!!!!!!