Woodies for Selfbow

[YosemiteSam]

Needing a little help selecting shafts for a wide at the pass selfbow.  It's a simple pyramid maple board bow that came in at 42# at 27".  The handle is stiff (double thickness) and 1/2" from center at the arrow pass (no shelf).  The shaft contacts the handle at about halfway, maybe a little forward from there but not much.  Brace height at about 6.5".

My 30-35 spine shafts were showing very weak spine.  It took me getting down to about a 20" draw before they straightened out.  If I'm drawing about 3# per inch, would that then require me to get shafts spined about 20# heavier?  I put in an order for 50-55s but second guessing myself.  Any thoughts are appreciated.

[FlintNSteel]

I just bought my first all-wood bow a few weeks ago from the classified here.  It is a John Strunk osage backed with bamboo.  Mine is a bit heavier coming in at around 53# at 29".  1/2 inch from center and really just a little locator "shelf".  Also braced at about 6 1/2"

I played around with arrows from 45# spine to 75# and tip weights of 125, 145, 160, and 190.   Arrow length of 31".  Under 55# were definitely too weak no matter the point weight.  Over 70# were definitely too heavy no matter the point weight.

After several days of shooting all kinds of combinations between 55# and 65#, I finally settled on 60-65# tapered fir (surewoods) with 190 gr points as the very best fliers.  Pretty darned good flight bare shafted and perfect with the feathers.  So net, I'm in that 10# above the bow weight range similar to what you just ordered.

My arrows weighed in at 620 grs.  Through the chrono these came in at 148 fps.

As a side note... I also ran all my specs through the spine calculator on 3Rivers' website and it was a perfect match to what I ended up choosing!

Hope yours work out!

[Michael Arnette]

I'm no expert with self bows but I'd say you are pretty close in guessing 50-55ish

[Mark Baker]

I am one of those guys that believes most folks seriously overthink their arrows....and specially true regarding selfbows.  With most selfbows, archers paradox is your friend.   Arrows are "spined" so that shooters know "where" they are beginning in regard to stiffness of their arrows matching the poundage they are shooting.  If you shoot 55lbs@28, or very close to that...then pick arrows that are spined to reflect the poundage you shoot.   Simple.  

Shoot enough feather to help your arrow correct itself quickly.   Simple.

Shoot a consistent weight up front....anywhere from 125gr, to 200gr,  it doesn't matter, but know that as you approach heavier up front, it MAY affect your spine some.

Don't fuss with the length of your arrows.  Really?  If you want to shoot consistently, keep your arrows the same length all the time.  Most of us shoot some form of instinctive/learned style, in which we "see" the arrow (admit it or not) and messing with length will mess with your ability to be accurate, IMO.   Simple.

With any trad bow, you should be able to achieve great arrow flight with arrows spined to match the weight you draw (with small adjustments to spine, depending on point weight, drawlength, etc.)  

Little things like brace height, nock point, tiller, sloppy release....none of those are the fault of the arrow.   Fix that stuff.

I constantly see posts that go on forever about arrow tuning....okay, I get it for those who like that stuff.  No problems there.   But if you are like me, and hate to constantly worry about details...stick to the basics.   Learn about them, they should be second nature for any trad bowhunter/shooter, and should be the rules that guide you first and foremost.  

I have been building selfbows for nearly 30 years now....and shoot upwards of half a dozen bows each year...with little problems when I stick to these rules.   I shoot to practice hunting...so I'm not a long range guy.   I never bareshaft...whats the point there (to me).  I aint gonna hunt bareshaft.   I shoot plenty of feather to straighten out the arrow quickly, for accuracy, for penetration purposes, for clean flight through unknown terrain....It hasn't failed me yet.   Most bows I build for myself (since I don't sell them) and in nearly 30 years, I can't say that I ever have had to adjust my spine more than a single spine group up or down to get good (perfect) flight - not more than a half-dozen times (remember that is for a hundred plus bows...and each one is different).

Stick to the basic rules...keep it simple.

[Tim in Wa.]

I wish I would have seen this 1 1/2 years ago.I about drove myself nuts trying to bare shaft until I fletched a few and just picked the best flyer

[Jack Skinner]

Mark Baker is my HERO!

[forestdweller]

When in doubt lean on the side of a stiffer arrow. Having an arrow that is slightly stiff is way better than a weak arrow.

[michaelschwister]

Each bow is different so I find it best to keep a tuning set of shafts for bareshaft tuning.  2 of each at 35,40,45,50,55,60,65,70, 75,80,85,90.  I bare shaft each bow when I make it, and just dial in with what works.  My current #1 is and osage selfbow 67" ntn, 62# @ 28" and it likes 75-80# tapered surewoods with a 200 grain tip. SO with a 125 tip (standard for bare shaft compilations) it should need 65-70#. This bow shoots a 675 grain arrow at 167 fps, so is a relatively high performer.

I made a bamboo backed yew for a friend.  It shot remarkable, I was shocked.  It was 50 pounds at 27" and shot 50-55 with 160 grain heads, 45-50s with 125 grain heads.  But not at first, being an inch wide, there was some action at the riser.  I tuned those arrows with round and half round file.

[YosemiteSam]

Originally posted by pavan:
I made a bamboo backed yew for a friend.  It shot remarkable, I was shocked.  It was 50 pounds at 27" and shot 50-55 with 160 grain heads, 45-50s with 125 grain heads.  But not at first, being an inch wide, there was some action at the riser.  I tuned those arrows with round and half round file.

Did you tune the arrows with a file or tune the handle to the arrow?

[YosemiteSam]

Originally posted by Mark Baker:
I am one of those guys that believes most folks seriously overthink their arrows....
Stick to the basic rules...keep it simple.

Cheers for this!  I appreciate your perspective, Mr. Baker.  Overthinking is a habit so I appreciate reminders to keep things simple.

[Jack Skinner]

YosemiteSam I didn't mean to be flippant but Mr. Baker nailed it perfectly. I have been building selfbows for 20 years or so and I also turn a lot of my own arrows from boards. I tend to shoot either off the hand or off a small glued on shelf. With the around 1 inch handle I tend to go with it means that slightly lower spine than my draw weight on my bow works best. Meaning I built all my selfbows at 55-60lbs so that I can just pick up any arrow and shoot from any bow. Now for me that means arrow spine of 55-60 at 26 inch centers cut to 29 inches with a 190 grain point fly great for me. Total arrow weight from 550 to 680 grains. Which means the spine of that arrow is probably closer to 50lbs (I really don't know or care much about dynamic spine). I will also add that footed arrows (FOC)give me the best arrow flight from my selfbows.

Good luck don't over think it and have fun.

[FlintNSteel]

I certainly won't argue with simple.  I generally don't have to spend a lot of time "tuning" and that's the way I like it.  I think because of my unfamiliarity with an all wood bow design that had no cut-out at all so paradox played a much bigger role in flight, I played with my arrows to match them WAY more than I normally would.  As I've shot this bow for several weeks now, I've found that some of that was definitely ME.  These bows seem to have a way of showing you your shooting form mistakes!

On the other hand....I've been to traditional shoots and have seen more than enough guys shooting self-bows where my thought is "I hope to God that they never go hunting and shoot at a living creature!"

I see arrow flight so poor, I cannot imagine a person even attempting to shoot it, and skills to hit even close targets so bad they probably would never hit a deer at 15 yards anyway!   :eek:  

So on the other hand....I've seen more than enough proof that one can definitely UNDERthink arrow flight as well.    

Yose, I have not been checking back, back and legs went off on me for a couple of days.  No, I cut a long tapered arrow shelf into the bow.  Perhaps, only 5/16" but it made all the difference for that bow.  I am only guessing, but how the limbs function at the end of the thrust may have something to do with how much being outside of center matters.  The finest selfbow that I ever shot was a billet sinew backed yew, 7/8" wide at the shelf. It shot the same spine as my Hill.

[YosemiteSam]

The 50-55 shafts came in and seemed to work just fine.  I cut them so I can feel the back of my point on my index finger at full draw.  They still appear to be a little weak but the fletching should straighten things out from there.  It's an easy reference point for a draw-check.

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.