How does the form look???

[Last of the Breed]

I have been reading over all the post on form, and since I dont have any trad buddies I thought I would get a few "professional" opinions.  


 http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/calebmichael2003/

[JC]

Michael, don't know if we have an "professionals" on this board...mostly just guys like me with lots of experience in how not to do it   :D  

Very hard to tell from just pics. Will your digital camera do videos? Much easier to diagnose problems with video. Try to take a clip with a couple of shots each from both sides, front/back, and especially directly overhead if at all possible.

[Last of the Breed]

Yea, Im working on the video part..

[Last of the Breed]

O.K. I think I have a few proper videos..


 http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/calebmichael2003/?action=view¤t=IMAG0002.flv


 http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/calebmichael2003/?action=view¤t=IMAG0033.flv


 http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/calebmichael2003/?action=view¤t=IMAG0001.flv

[JC]

Michael, Ok, first we've got to get you nocking the arrow safely...doing it the way you are with a broadhead is downright dangerous  :eek:  Most nock an arrow by holding the nock or the arrow very close to the feathers, laying the arrow on the rest first, then connecting to string...far safer than waving a razor sharp broadhead around your head. I know it sounds like a little thing but that was the first thing I noticed.

In the first video, I think your drawing arm looks in good alignment. You have a minor "pluck" but I'll bet it doesn't effect your shot much because of the good elbow alignment. It might be a minor problem, easily remedied by more back tension...the drawing hand would come straight back on release instead of away from the face.

It looks like the shoulder of your bow arm might be slightly out of alignment...pointed a tad more to your left. Try closing up your stance a little (turn more of your side to the target) to get your bow shoulder more in alignment.

In both the 1st and 2nd video I can see your head come down to your anchor instead of the anchor coming to your head. I think most people shoot better if their head stays static and the rest of their form moves to accomodate it during the shot process.

In the second video it looks like you are dropping your bow arm pretty quickly. Follow through, even exaggerated slightly, is very beneficial to accuracy. You also look like you are leaning a good bit forward into the shot (your front bow shoulder is lower than your rear draw shoulder). I shoot like this too and find it very comfortable, but be aware it does shorten your draw length. Better alignment in a more defined "T" might prove more accurate for you, something to try. You would then bend only at the waist for shots above/below that level. Again, I shoot like this too and it works for me, but thought I should point it out at least.

Again, drawing arm/elbow alignment look in great alignment to me, that's a tough one for a lot of us.

Hope this helps, your mileage may vary, good luck!

[Last of the Breed]

Thank you JC, my nocking problem is due to shooting from my knees, i guess, since have been shooting standing up most of the time.  
I will try to turn my side more towards the target and try to keep my head up.  As I type this I'm late to head down to tenn to hunt deer.  Thank you again.. gotta go

[cvarcher]

Mike, first off is to get a nice back quiver and learn the Hill style of drawing an arrow out of the quiver and onto the bow. you should be able to do this without looking at your hands and in 3 seconds.John Shultz Hittem like Howard Hill video will show you the way. Second --you are not canting the bow therefore you are only seeing half the sight picture--no good. You need to cant .alot when close up and a little when shooting far. Try to keep your anchor hand firm and remaining on the face after you release. make believe someone is taking your picture as you shoot and hold the postion until the arrow is in thew target. If your starting out dont use a target bull.You cannot properly learn form AND concentrate on hitting the target.

[JC]

Originally posted by cvarcher:
You cannot properly learn form AND concentrate on hitting the target.

Actually, some can...but that's another discussion.  

[30coupe]

JC,

Great advice! I noticed the same thing right away.    Scared the crap out of me. I could envision a razor sharp woodsman raking along the side of his head. I am always a little nervous around broadheads anyway, which I think is just proper respect for them.

 

Originally posted by JC:
 

Originally posted by cvarcher:
You cannot properly learn form AND concentrate on hitting the target.

Actually, some can...but that's another discussion.    [/b]

I do. If I don't do both I have no way of judging whether my form is good or not. When my form is good, my arrows fly well and hit where I want them to. If I am not hitting, I start analyzing my form.

[JC]

Originally posted by 30coupe:
I do. If I don't do both I have no way of judging whether my form is good or not. When my form is good, my arrows fly well and hit where I want them to. If I am not hitting, I start analyzing my form.

Yer preaching to the choir here bro...I feel much the same way.

[Last of the Breed]

Im gonna try to post a new video, I shot with my bow shoulder in better alignement and raised that shoulder up. And my shots were going a little to the right. I guess that the comment on not shooting at a target while trying to get my form right was good advise because I can't concentrate on both. Not sure how far to cant the bow.(?) I'm thinking that I'm cantting the bow around 70-80 degrees. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[JC]

Originally posted by Last of the Breed:
I guess that the comment on not shooting at a target while trying to get my form right was good advise because I can't concentrate on both.

Yep, not everyone's advice is going to work for everyone else...keep trying different bits and discarding what doesn't work for you. You'll get it right for you, and that's what counts.

The purpose of canting the bow is typically to get proper alignment of the arrow under the eye. Some find shooting upright works better, some canting a few degrees, some way past 45...you'll have to find what works best for you. I would suggest, at first anyway, just enough to get the arrow anchored in line with the eye. You can play with this in front of a mirror: bow held out as if to shoot, arrow not on the string but drawn back to anchor...rotate your cant back and forth and see where your alignment is. Remember, to keep your alignment of torso even with a cant or you will probably torque the string. A mirror is an excellent tool for immediate feedback of form variations in the learning stage.

[Last of the Breed]

I took some new videos, and thought I would see what you guys thought

 http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/calebmichael2003/?action=view¤t=newshooting2.flv


 http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/calebmichael2003/?action=view¤t=newshooting.flv

[Last of the Breed]

I took some new videos, and thought I would see what you guys thought

 http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/calebmichael2003/?action=view¤t=newshooting2.flv


 http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/calebmichael2003/?action=view¤t=newshooting.flv

[JC]

Sorry Michael, missed this.

First video: looks better (and looks like you got the nocking "scare" gone now    ). Your elbow may still be a touch high, at least from this angle. It looks like you are trying to hold the release hand steady after release; this static release works for some but you may find it easier to keep proper back tension with a more pronounced follow through of the drawing hand. In shots 1 &2, your head barely moves as you bring the draw to it, looks good...3rd shot looks like you are moving your head to the anchor again. Bow arm/shoulder looks good from this angle.

Second video: last shot shows a static release that looks really good...the elbow comes straight back for a distance, nice and smooth, hand stays in alignment with the arrow; as opposed to the first two the hand flys away a bit from the face. Because the angle is off to one side, I can't quite tell about the rest of the alignment...but from what I can see it looks pretty good.

From what I see in both videos, I'll bet if you are still having fliers they are smaller in error and they are probably caused more by release issues than any other part of your form that I can see. If you are changing to a static release from a follow through (from your first set of videos), try to make it look like that last one in the second video above. jmho, your mileage may vary.

Now the real question, how are the arrows hitting now in comparison?

[Last of the Breed]

JC,

 

Originally posted by JC:

From what I see in both videos, I'll bet if you are still having fliers they are smaller in error and they are probably caused more by release issues than any other part of your form that I can see.
Now the real question, how are the arrows hitting now in comparison?

Iam shooting better and my arrows are grouping better even out to 25/30 yards.  But I do still have a "flier" every so often.  Im gonna get a new shooting glove, mine seems to kinda stick to the string making it kinda hard to lit it slip loose.