brace height nock point spine???

[AK stick-n-string]

Ive got a new Fred Bear Patriot longbow this spring, about 68# at 29" draw. I have tied a lot of different nock points and arrows with the same result....a big old clunk sound as the arrow goes across the riser.The brace height was under 6.0" (with the feathers almost in the sealskin)  as measured from the string to the back of the arrow shelf. or about 6.5" from the string to the deep point of the handle). so I twisted up the string a couple different times until its about 7" (or 7.5 at the handle) I think it might be getting a little better but Im not sure if I should go more or not?? how much can you twist up a string and what is too much or too little as an extreme for brace height?? Ive put about 15 full twists in the string and it doesnt appear to be overly twisted. in other words I have no clue what I'm doing but Ive read enough and shot enough to know that big old "clunk" is no way to shoot. Ive also tried the nock height at 1/4 to 1/2 inches and quite a few different arrows from 50 pound spine to 75 with the same result. any ideas where to go from here??

[madness522]

I have that same bow and keep it breaced around 7.25-7.5.  My nock point is at 5/8 and I shoot split.  If you are shooting three under it will need to be higher than that.  There is a rule of thumb about the number of twists per inch that you should stay under but from your description I don't think you have to be too concerned.  You can twist it a bit more before then.

[KodiakBob]

If you are shooting split try puttint the nock on the string so that the nock of the arrow is above the nock point.

[aromakr]

AK:
Your problem sounds more like a spine issue than a brace height problem or nocking point issue. As far as nock point goes, its almost impossible to tell you were to place it. Too many factors involved. If you nock under the nock point, shaft diameter will effect placement, larger the dia. higher the nock point. The way you grip the bow will effect the bows tiller, which effect nock height. The way the bow is tillered effects nock placement. And a combination of all of these factors will effect placement.
Bob

[cvarcher]

Sounds like a spine problem or both.If you draw 29" and the bow is 69lbs at that draw then your arrows should be 75-80lbs spined at 28" .Then when you cut those shafts to say 30" allowing one inch for a broadhead it will soften down to 65-70lbs spine.Thats a good start.W@ith the spine closely matched to the bows weight at your draw you now can play up and down with the nocking point by twisting the string .Start with 3/16" above dead zero on the T square with the shelf.Arrow should nock over that point.Hill style is sliding your arrow down to the nocking point without looking.

[AK stick-n-string]

Well I guess my string is stretching badly because when I sturn it tonight it was back at 6 and 3/8. I jacked the brace height up to 7 inches measured at the back of the shelf and not much difference shooting my gold tip expedition 5575's with points ranging from 100 grains to 175. swapping to "nock-under didnt seem to change things appreciably either. Then I stripped the vanes off an old full lenght Easton 2514 "log" I had laying around from when I shot training wheels and the clunk goes away but the the tail wags high and left in an extreme way when bareshafting. Does it sound like "spine problem solved" and now just start tuning brace height and nock point from there??? my intuition is that the results are still too extreme to get that conclusion.....AAAARRRRG!
I do shoot split btw. whats your measuring point for brace height Madness??
I sure appreciate any more suggestions and the ones already given.

[AkDan]

Jeff,

Measure to the deep part of the throat is the consenus, really it doesnt matter as long as you remember where you did it at lol. old age sucks here    .


I'd go in to uncle bills (back country) or run out to fletchers in wasilla, or better yet, run out to Jacks place.  

Sounds like you are shooting a b50 string, or the string is pretty new....or it's gettin untwisted when it's unstrung, either from being twisted to tight or just hanging funny.  Try leaving the bow strung for awhile and see what happens.   I like to prestretch strings.

Forgot you might run into Brian Stewart at straigth flight and talk to him about it.  

Lastly if you can find Russ Kucinski I bet he can show you whats wrong real quick.  Problem is he's a pretty quiet guy, dunno how much he goes out to shoot and it seems very few people know him, though they've heard of him.   If you can't find him, I've got his number and I'll give him a call, see if he can't help ya.

[Scott J. Williams]

You are getting some great advice, however it is beginning to sound like a shooting technique problem. If I am not being too forward, I would suggest that you place a small piece of leather or tooth pick(flat kind)on your shelf under your shelf material.  That would have the effect of providing you a little more space and at least for me on some bows has eliminate that clunk.  You might want to check your shelf for wear, it could give you a clue if your are having specific tuning problems, if the nocking point is too high, the arrow will slam into the shelf, causing the noise you described. It can also cause your arrows to exhibit nock high character, and impact higher on the target.  Remember, when bare shaft tuning, you should be more concerned about the arrows attitude in flight, and not where the nock is pointed when it hits the target.

[AK stick-n-string]

yes the advice has been highly appreciated but especially AKdans because I think its time I got some coaching in person so an expert can watch the arrow and my form....and maybe a little laying on of hands if you will. I'm sure my form needs work but i dont think its that far off because Ive got a Black widow long bow and a handful of recurves that shoot most any arrow at least as well as this patriot bow. anyway the truth is the truth and it will come out eventually. the outer rear edge of the sealskin rest does have some interesting wear so that is telling me something no doubt but I just dont speak that language yet. Ill try to remember to post and let you know what the hangup was if Bill or whoever can help me out of it. Im also a member of the local club so I get the letters from Russ amd should have his contact info so thanks very much Dan. thanks again for trying to help all.
Jeff

[AkDan]

Jeff,

Make it a priority if you can to find Russ Kucinski  I hope I didnt butch the last name spelling though I'm sure I did.

I want to say he works for blm or the forest service.  Havent talked to him in quite awhile.  I do have his number.  He would be the first person I would go too without question!!!

Sorry for the spelling errors there.  I ment back country in the earlier post   .

The other person I would strongly consider going to is Jack Harrison.  He's in Wasilla.   Take your pick!  The few times I've talked to Jack I was humbled in just how little I really knew....about anything and everything.  The man is awesome!

Fletchers and Bill or the other guys in the gang can get you fixed up I'm sure.  But I bet these two have ran this run before and can lead you down the right road a lot faster.  

Keep me posted I'd like to hear what happens and what your problem is.

[AK stick-n-string]

I know this is a really old post but I finally did figure out the problem and hopefully it can help someone. my problem was not just with certain bows, just worse with some than others. It was a form problem due to using arrows that are too short. I have a really long draw length and just cant get things to work without cranking way back  there and "locking" my shoulder in. I finally went to a recurve with the riser cut past center which helped a lot but then I still felt very uneasy about my consitancy until I finally tried some full length carbon arrows and really brought my right arm on back until it was comfortable. thanks again for everyones input. hope this helps someone.