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Author Topic: painless form?  (Read 1275 times)

Offline Last of the Breed

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painless form?
« on: March 16, 2008, 08:28:00 PM »
I havent shot my bow in about two months due to a very sore left elbow.  And I am trying to figure out if it was my form that caused the pain?

 http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/calebmichael2003/?action=view¤t=newshooting2.flv

 http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/calebmichael2003/?action=view¤t=newshooting.flv

These are the videos that I sent in on my first issue with form.(about 6 months ago)
I am using a different bow, a 60" thunder stik moab 53# at 28, in the video I was shooting a 68" 60# at 28.
If it is my form I wanna get it fixed
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Online Terry Green

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Re: painless form?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2008, 09:10:00 PM »
Shouldn't be coming from your form according to those clips IMO.

What kind of bow are you shooting?

Does it have a lot of kick or hand shock?
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Offline Last of the Breed

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Re: painless form?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2008, 11:09:00 PM »
The bow Im going to be shooting is hte thunder stik moab 60" 53lbs at 28.  I got it in the late in the season when me elbow was already hurting.  In the video I was shootung an old viper delux 68" 60lbs at 28.  the viper did have a little hand shock.
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of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin

Offline AllenR

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Re: painless form?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2008, 01:55:00 PM »
In my case the sore left elbow came from failure to relax my elbow during the shot and trying to hold the bow still.

Two of the muscles that we use to hold the bow arm out are the tricepts and the anconeus.  The anconeus is a small short muscle below the elbow on the outside.  This was the source of my pain.  

Most of us know where the tricepts is, but if you are like me, you have to check a muscle chart to find the anconeus.  

I found that if I concentrated on relaxing this muscle, my elbow pain was much reduced.  However, I had to be sure not to try to hold the bow still after the shot.  I have to let it react the way it wants.  I'm right handed, so I have to let it go down and to the left after the shot.  As soon as I try to hold it still after the shot, I start feeling a little elbow pain.

This is how it worked for me. There are other forms of bow arm elbow pain that this won't help. You did the right thing by laying off shooting and giving it a chance to heal.  The challenge for you will be to avoid re-injury.

Good luck,
Allen

Offline cvarcher

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Re: painless form?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2008, 01:43:00 PM »
I watched you videos just now and it looks damn good to me! You have a wonderful anchor and smooth release.In fact the first video the bow looks smooth with no handshock at all. One of the things Howard taught was to keep the elbow of the bow arm with a slight bend in it to act as a shock absorber on recoil. I think if you are locking that bow arm straight out and the bow design is not sweet that could be the cause of your elbow hurting. A layoff was very smart and coming down in weight on the bow even smarter. Remember- a longer bow is more forgiving and smoother shooting than shorter bows in most designs.

Offline laddy

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Re: painless form?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2008, 04:00:00 PM »
According to my dc bone cracker, My last elbow problems came from repetitive grip with my left hand.  According to him we never work the muscles which opens our hands or bends our wrists back, always going in.  He recommends putting a large rubber band over the fingers and spreading it many times until the tendons tighten in the fore arm.  Also, by giving resistance to the back of the hand you can do back flexes of the wrist joint.  The bursitis start when inflammation creates adhesions on the tendons. I personally had to learn to lighten up my grip pressure when shooting bow and do spider walks before I play guitar.

Offline Cirque

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Re: painless form?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 10:00:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by cvarcher:
 One of the things Howard taught was to keep the elbow of the bow arm with a slight bend in it to act as a shock absorber on recoil. I think if you are locking that bow arm straight out and the bow design is not sweet that could be the cause of your elbow hurting.  
I watched the video also, and I was thinking the same thing about the straight arm.  My elbow has been causing me a lot of trouble lately and I also shoot with little bend in the elbow.  I can't really correct that problem because my draw length is too short to begin with (24.5").

 Does anyone know of any remedies for elbow shock?  Advil and ice are all I know of.

Offline toddster

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Re: painless form?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 10:14:00 PM »
LOB- I have had a few bows that after shooting awhile appeared to give me little tendonitis (tennis elbow).  I found that for me there was a few factors.  1) gripping the bow to much, if you grip the bow as if holding a bird in the hand enough not to kill it, and enought not to get away about right.  2)  For me having a straight arm seem to lock out and hurt some, again for me.  3) I found that of course when I went to a heavier arrow (tuned the bow more), helped out alot, didn't really feel alot of hand shock, just after period of shooting jared my elbow.  Might help.

Offline Downsouth

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Re: painless form?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2009, 12:20:00 PM »
I have a viper deluxe, it has some hand shock, lol and mines a 50 lb one! Sent you a pm.

Offline BTH

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Re: painless form?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2009, 02:21:00 PM »
I'm a lefty and my elbow pain is in the exact same spot on my right arm (bow arm). So the explanation of the anconeous muscle makes sense to me as I'm trying to hold my bow arm steady. I'm shooting 54" recurve.
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Offline Daddy Bear

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Re: painless form?
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 12:39:00 AM »
Are you sure your elbow is not locking out straight on your push just prior to release? It may be my tired eyes, but it looks like your elbow relaxes to a more natural position only after the release.

Don't take anything I'm saying as gospel, but I'll share a technique taught to me by my Granddad years ago on obtaining a natural elbow bend and a natural cant for shooting a longbow. It has worked for me for over thirty years but it is more based on a swing style draw.

With empty hands, stand at attention while directly facing your target. Have your open hands flat against your pant seams with your arms straight and with your elbows pulled tight against your sides. You will notice that it requires muscle tension to keep your elbows in and your hands flat. Now, completely relax your arms and shoulders, but keep your thumbs against your pant seams. You'll notice that when you relax, your elbows and the knife edge of your hands will pull away from your sides giving you a slight bend at the elbows. This is a natural position without any muscle tension.

From this natural position, raise(swing) your arm(s) directly straight forward up to shoulder level. Do not bring your hand(s) directly under your eye but keep them straight forward in front of you so that you would maintain the same natural shoulder width separation between your left and right arms/hands. From this position, you will notice that your elbow has a natural bend and your hand will be in a perfect low wrist position with a natural cant. This position uses all natural bone support with no added muscle tension.

Now, from this position with your bow arm/hand up at shoulder level, pivot on your bow side foot and rotate into a shooting stance while holding your bow arm up in position. At this point your bow arm is in the most natural position possible for your body structure. Just like in good firearms marksmanship, you're using tension free bone support. You can now lower your bow arm down to your side and swing it back up while maintaining this natural arm/elbow/hand position. This position is very forgiving on your elbow and shoulder, especially with heavy longbows. I was taught to master the longbow by naturally bringing it to me, not to become a slave to the longbow by twisting myself to it.

Going through all the steps above was only intended as a learning stage to find this arm position. Once you have the feel for it, it comes naturally without thought from any position you shoot. I've used it now for over three decades shooting longbows and it has served me well. I'm of the opinion that any operator added tension or Popeye torque to the shoulder/elbow area when shooting any weight on a longbow is a shortcut to injury. If you ever look at high speed film, you'll see a good deal of energy being directed back into the bow hand/arm. In a neutral position, you are using mostly big bone/muscle structure to absorb that shock. With the added bad tension, you are directing a good deal of shock into weaker areas that may become prone to damage.

Good Luck,
Daddy Bear

Offline Daddy Bear

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Re: painless form?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 09:35:00 AM »
"He recommends putting a large rubber band over the fingers and spreading it many times until the tendons tighten in the fore arm."

laddy, You don't need rubber bands or equipment, try this.

Take one hand (your spider) and touch your thumb and fingers together with your fingers pointing straight down. Take your other hand and form a "C" with your fingers and thumb like a GI-Joe action grip. Place this C-grip over fingers and thumb that are together (thumb over thumb). This acts like the rubber band.  Exercise the two against each other by squeezing the grip hand while opening the the finger hand. This will strengthen both groups of muscles and you will feel it throughout the forearm to the elbow. Switch opening and closing between hands for several repetitions.

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