can't reach anchor,

[sendero25]

Hi Folks,
I'll try to keep this brief but you may need a little background on me to help.
I went from a recurve to a compound in about 1977 and have shot compounds ever since, until last summer when I gave them up for good when I saw the light and got back into trad. shooting.
The whole time I shot compounds I never used a sight, mechanical release aid or a mechanical rest of any kind. I have always shot compounds, "instinctively". My compounds always had just a flipper or brush rest. To me the only advantage of a compound bow was the let off, as it let me hold a very steady anchor point.
As the years progressed, and bows became shorter and shorter, finger shooting a compound has become almost impossible and since all new compounds have a "drop away" rest or some other gizmo, I just quit archery altogether for several years, until late last summer, I got bit by the trad bug in a big way.
I now have two new recurves and two longbows and I love shooting them, BUT, here is my problem, I have a heck of a time coming to full draw and reaching a full anchor in the corner of my mouth.
I tend to "short draw" every bow I have, from a 44 pound Black Widow PL V to my 55 pound Tomahawk Diamond Series Desert Fox. I tend to release when the base of my thumb hits my face. (Almost to the point where the thumb ends and the writst begins!)
Is it targer panic? I know I am losing close to 4" of draw length, and a lot of bow weight, by releasing when my thumb base touches my face.
My accuracy is pretty good, but I have to get over this. Sorry I can't post video but any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks to all,
John

[GrayRhino]

Are you overbowed?  That is a common problem when making the switch from compound to traditional bows.  You may have to drop 10 - 15% in draw weight from what you shot with a compound.

Do you practice drawing your trad bow for exercise?  (With no arrow).  I would practice drawing 10 times, and holding at the correct anchor point for at least 5 seconds at a time to develop strength and get the correct anchor point engrained in your shooting form.

It is also important to alternate drawing your bow left and right handed to evenly develop the muscles in your back, neck and arms.

[Ray]

John try pulling back and anchoring like you use to with the compound.
 I have the same problem and recently picked up an old compound to get the feeling of a solid anchor again.After shooting the C for a week it became easier to anchor once again with my longbow.If I sight down the arrow while drawing I NEVER REACH anchor.If I draw,anchor and then aim IT works better.I have a harder time aiming but the full draw and anchor we need.
 Good luck-Ray.

[sendero25]

Thanks GrayRhino, I don't think I am overbowed, I have a friend with a 70# Hill Big 5, If I draw it in his house with no arrow, I can come to full draw (it isn't easy, LOL). I know this has to be a mental and not physical problem. I bought a "bow-fit" several weeks ago and use it every day and when I am done with it I can feel a "burn" in all the right muscles. When I dry pull my bows I can come to full draw, but with an arrow and a target, I go all to pieces and short draw.
Ray, thanks for the advice, I don't shoot or hunt with a compound anymore but still own one, I'll try practicing with it until the anchor feels more solid with my trad bows.
Thanks to all,
John

[cvarcher]

Try a 35lb bow and see what happens

"When I dry pull my bows I can come to full draw, but with an arrow and a target, I go all to pieces and short draw."

The short answer to your question is, YES, you have TP.  That statement is a dead give-a-way.  I'd suggest going down the page a few threads and read the "Target Panic" one.

Good Luck,

Jim

[Diamond Paul]

What Jim said.

[sendero25]

Jim and Paul thanks for the advice. I just re-read the "target panic" thread and one post describes my problem perfectly. I can't seen to stop "waiting on the outcome" of the shot. Even if I shoot at a backstop with no target on it, I tend to try to shoot my second arrow at the nock of the first. I can't focus on my form, my mind is too worried about being accurate. But now I think I know the basis of the problem and I'll work on it, even blind shooting with eyes closed ( although if I miss, I will really have some upset neighbors)
Gentlemen, thank you very much for your help.
John

[Mark Fedrizzi]

.........Try a draw stop/checker---clicker for me

A clicker is a fine tool. I shot one for 20 years.  Heck, it was the only way I could function.  Then... I started to anticipate it.  OH MY!  The clicker is not a cure, even though it can cure a few folks.  I'm convinced the only cure is to re-program the mind to take control of your anchor. I'm also convinced that it's as simple as this:  Just because you draw, it doesn't mean you have to shoot.  When you can "learn" to let down, and not feel the anticipation of the shot--you're cured.

[chuck172]

"I'm also convinced that it's as simple as this: Just because you draw, it doesn't mean you have to shoot. When you can "learn" to let down, and not feel the anticipation of the shot--you're cured."

I believe your right Jim. Seems like it's working for me.

[cvarcher]

you have TP bad. I can load an arrow and come to full draw on my dog and know comfortably not to let go and I dont. and I have some target panic. All the years of your sights and competition have you all set up like this. So start from the very beginning like a child and try a very light bow (35lb)and retrain yourself for instinctive shooting taking each part of the shot sequence reall slow.Do not even think of shooting at a target. go to a field and use blunts and shoot at the horizon.I guarantee you will be able to come to full draw and hold

[aromakr]

John:
Target panic is one of the hardest things to over come, however it can be done. I had it for years. You have to re-program the brain. The problem with most people is they want a quick cure, believe me when I say there is no quick cure. It takes time and lots of effort. I would start with no target on the backstop and you only 5-8 feet from it. Start by staring at a spot, then before drawing the bow close your eyes. Come to full draw anchor and release. Do not change from this for several weeks. When this process becomes easy for you then start opening your eyes and doing the same thing. Don't sneek back to 15 yards to see if its working because you will loose everything you have gained. It takes a lot of effort to cure the problem.
Another way is to switch from right to left handed or vice-versa.
But be patient THERE IS NO QUICK FIX!!!!!!!
Bob

[sendero25]

To everyone who has offered help in this thread, my heartfelt many thanks! What a great bunch to sit around a fire with.
I shot a little the last two days and have taken all of your advice. I have found shooting my lightest bow, a 44# Black Widow PL V, that I really need to SLOW DOWN!
I can make full draw, let down, come to full draw, let down, and every now and then, when it feels right, release.
Things seemed to go alot better today. I spent a lot of time just drawing the bow (with an arrow) and NOT SHOOTING!
I was holding for at least a 5 to 10 count before letting down.
I also got to within 5 feet of my target and practiced by closing my eyes as aromaker suggested, thank you my new friend! It really made me feel what the shot should feel like, I actually have a muscle tenderness in my shoulder blade area that may reveal I am actually using back tension for the first time!
I will continue to practice what you all have suggested to me and let you know how I am doing.
Today felt great mentally, I know it isn't cured(by a long shot) but my results made me at least feel it isn't a problem I can't overcome, especially with the help I have here on the forum,
Thank you all very much for taking the time to help.
John

John,

Congratulations!  Sounds like great progress.
 
One thing I'd suggest;  when you're doing the eyes closed drill... keep your eyes open, then frame the shot, THEN close your eyes. Concentrate on your form.  Pushing and pulling and using that back. There seems to be some great theropy by doing it that way.  You'll just have to try it to see what I mean.

[sendero25]

Jim,
Thanks, that is what I did, I kept my eyes open until it "looked right" then I closed them, guess that is what you mean by framing the shot. I didn't know I was doing it right, but I live in a residential neighborhood and I wanted to make sure I kept my arrow insided the privacy fence, LOL. I'm not sure if the neighbors would understand why there was an arrow in their pool or worse!
Thanks again for the help! I thought this would be easy!
John