Erratic flight

[Talondale]

This one's got me stumped.  I'm thinking it has to do with form but I haven't figured out what yet.  Same bow I've been using: 3 piece recurve, shooting off the shelf, seal skin rug and plate, 53# @ my 29", 3 under, 2016 Easton cut 31" BOP, 145gr heads, 3 fletch 5" RW feathers, RH

Everything was fine until I bought a new set of Gamegetters last year, they now have the 300, 400, 500 designations.  I went with 500 which says made with 2016 spec material or something to that effect.  They bareshafted fine at full length and so I left them that way.  Had some penetration issues during the season and started to investigate.  Was getting erratic flight; clock-wise spin or porposing. Played around with nock points, got better but couldn't eliminate.  Cut my arrows shorter (to 31" mentioned above) and played some more.  Nothing consistent. Stripped everything off strings (silencers, brush buttons) and played with brace height and nock point.  Sometimes I got good flight sometimes spin, sometimes knock high in flight.  Put a small piece of leather under my rest and plate above the throat of grip as shelf is more of center radius than over throat.  Swapped gloves, no improvement.  Cock feather in, cock feather out.  Last night I nocked rediculously high (1" or so above 90*) and got better flight but some nock high.

What could I be doing wrong?

[Scott J. Williams]

I have been there brother, I have had some of the same issues with the new gamegetters.  I am a little loss on the "spin" you speak of.  

When I have had anything close to that type of problem, it was either a spine problem, too weak, arrow striking something(often from nock too high, or too low), or the most common factor FOC is off.  Now the FOC thing only applies, if the arrow spine is in the ball park.  

I would suggest that you try the cock feather at 12:00 O'clock position.  I would be interested to know what you find out....Scott

[Talondale]

FOC is around 40%.  Point of balance is 13" and overall arrow length is 31.75"  arrows weigh 566 grains.

[jhansen]

When something goes wrong I always ask myself what has changed?  In this case the problem started when you bought new arrows.  I know you don't want to hear this but those arrows are the most likely culprit.

John

[Killdeer]

Bow limbs tight?
Different nocks? Do they fit?

Killdeer  

[Talondale]

Limbs are tight. I've tried three different nocks.  Same results.  Last night I played with the nock point some more and was able to get them shooting well with cock feather in.  If I flipped it out they kicked nock high.  Not sure why they are working now.  I may try raising my brace height.  If nothing else seems to work I'll order a new string.  I had problems with this bow when I first got it and a new string seemed to fix all the problems, this one isn't that old though.  *shrug*

[longbawl]

Take your rug and strike plate off if your nock is hitting your riser you will hear it.  If your old arrows still shoot good its your new arrows

[WESTBROOK]

If you have access to a spine tester I would compare the 2 arrows. Ya never know..

Eric

[Grant Young]

Talondale I recently moved from 2317s to gg300s and even though they use the same components, the 300gg is a very slightly weaker spine but not enough to adversely affect arrow flight-they are also about ten grains per finished arrow lighter. Everyone above made good observations IMO, but you might want to recheck your own form details. I myself occasionally let my hook get shallow or my third finger get a little lazy and my arrow flight really shows it with some of the symptoms you mentioned. After forty years, my tendency is still to look at my gear before I look closely at myself,lol. Easton's web-site will give you spine ratings for both the 500 and the 2016 if you can't come up with a tester. Good luck getting it worked out. Have a great season,                        Grant

[Curtiss Cardinal]

Talondale I think the following could all be contributing to the problems you describe.
1) Slightly weak spine on the arrows (have you ever paper tested them?) I mean just a bit underspine that will be exaggerated by the following form issues.
2)Release is probably less than smooth and hanging up just a bit. This could be beacuse
3)back tension is lacking which can further effect form, such as
4)Follow through
You might want to consider shortening the arrows another inch if you can. Also work on back tension and release(they are tied together)The better building of back tension the smoother the release.

[wapiti]

Exactly what C2 said. In that order.

[Tom A]

You say they bareshaft good?   The only thing it could be is fletching contact.

[Talondale]

Well this issue is on hold at least until this weekend.  I hyper-extended my left thumb breaking a sapling Saturday while setting up my stands.  Have the thumb wrapped ATM.  :(   It could be my form.  I'm on my second dzn of those new arrows and my practice arrows are a mix of old, new and newest (2016, 500 tapered nock, 500 uni-nock) shortest, longest, midway (respectively) and results were mixed.  It did seem of my two newest hunting arrows one arrow was more prone to kick than the other but I can't figure out a difference between the two.  I worked up two more new arrows but injured myself before I could test them.

[Curtiss Cardinal]

Talondale for future implimentation, a Swiss Army Knife Farmer's model has a very usable saw on it and it fits handily in your pocket. It works a treat on saplings up to about 4" in diameter. Another bit of advice smear the gleaming cut top of the stump with mud to cover the sun reflecting light color.  Sorry to hear about ytour injury.

[Talondale]

Thanks C2, I have a Gerber pocket saw but didn't have it on hand.  The sapling was just an impromptu action.  Live and learn.  Didn't get a chance to work on the arrows but I'm going to try cutting some down 1/2" and see if that clears up the problem.

[Talondale]

Ok, thumb's still hurt but can shoot with it taped.  I ended up cutting my arrows down 1", back to my normal arrow length 30" BoP, and they seem to be flying better.  Bare shaft groups ok but had erratic flight which led me to also notice that my normal anchor point seems to be causing some of the problem.  Normally I anchor with my thumb knuckle in my ear and my pointer and middle finger above and below my checkbone, respectively.  I noticed that if I just anchored my thumb knuckle and let the two fingers float a little I was getting a more consistent group.  I have shot this way for 14+ years and I'm not sure why I'm all of the sudden getting interference from that method but so far that seems  to be the case.  I also must say that the past two years I've also been getting a bit of a rug burn on my cheek when I shoot a lot so maybe I'm getting too much feather contact.  Not sure why that would be the case either but I'll keep practicing and see what develops.

[Talondale]

Just thought I'd post a follow up on this problem.  The shorter arrows helped but what fixed my problem was reworking my serving.  Apparently it was causing erratic release on my arrow.  Once I reworked it my arrows have been flying good again.

[BLACK WOLF]

When you say you re-worked your serving...did you re-serve with a thinner diameter string so that your nocks fit looser?

If that was the case...it sounds like your nocks were to tight which could defintiely cause problems.

If you used the same diameter string for your new serving and the nocks don't fit looser on the string...that's got me stumped why that would be the fix.

Either way...I'm glad it solved your problem.

Also...why do you think you are all of sudden getting string rash across your face after shooting for so long without getting any?

Have you gained weight and are now more cheeky?

Are you feathers in a different position?

Are you shooting more than you ever have in the past?

What has changed?

Ray  

[Talondale]

BW,
  The serving was showing wear and was a smaller diameter (compressed?) where I nock and there was some seperation between each wrap at the nock point.

 

Have you gained weight and are now more cheeky?  

LOL.  That's a definite possibility!  My face is fuller than it once was.

[BLACK WOLF]

Originally posted by Talondale:
BW,
  The serving was showing wear and was a smaller diameter (compressed?) where I nock and there was some seperation between each wrap at the nock point.

Hmmm....I know you said your problems fixed...but I was just curious about a few things.

I'm just thinking out loud.

Have you tried double nocks...one above and below your arrow nock?

Maybe with the nock being too loose it was traveling up and down the sting as you drew your bow.

You may be pushing down on the arrow with your index finger if you are shooting split finger.

You might also want to try and space your fingers away from the arrow a little more to make sure your not creating problems with finger and arrow contact.

Do you have a high elbow at full draw?

Ray