Will being overbowed make you.....

[Marvin M.]

shoot left if you're right handed?

I shoot my Martin Savannah pretty good out to about 20 yards (close enough for whitetails -- for now), but made a Binghams take-down longbow that is 55+ pounds (haven't put it on the scales yet).  

The same arrows fly good out of both of them with minimal wobble from the new bow.  My problem is that I tend to shoot left with the new bow.  If I really bear down and focus really hard, I can usually get it close, but it's almost always left of the target.  If I don't really concentrate, it will be as much as a foot to the left.

Is it because I haven't built up to that weight yet?

[BLACK WOLF]

Being overbowed basically means that an archer can not comfortably handle a specific draw weight and maintain solid and repeatable form...which can lead to any number of issues in regards to poor form and poor accuracy.

If you can't comfortably hold your bow at full draw for at least a few seconds...than you could be overbowed.

I would bareshaft tune to see what your arrows are doing consistantly.

Ray  

[30coupe]

Sounds like either:

a) your arrows are overspined
b) your bow is not cut to center

or both.

If your bow is not center shot, the arrow must bend around the riser. It may take a weaker arrow to do this. It could also be that your spine is ok, but you are not looking down the arrow. I find that with my non-center shot Kota, I have to concentrate on lining up the arrow with the target. It shoots consistently and hits where I want it to if I do that.

[Marvin M.]

Thanks guys.  I could be wrong but I think the arrows are OK.  I'll check that.  I can hold the bow almost as long as I can the Savannah, but am just consistently hitting left with it.

The bow isn't center cut and I noticed today that the string isn't laying down the center.  I'll correct that and try again.

[SHOOTO8S]

Sounds like the new bow grip may be inducing torque. Its more common for increased bow weight to impact to the right for RH shooter.

[O.L. Adcock]

Yep, And loosen up on the grip, let the bow "shoot" without a death grip on it....O.L.

[Marvin M.]

OK, I'll pay attention the the grip too.

I'd like to be able to take a whitetail with it this year, but am just not confident enough yet to take it out.

[Bill Skinner]

It might be your release.  If I pluck out, away from my face, or do not anchor on the side of my face, I will shoot left by as much as 3 FEET depending on how hard I pluck the string.  I usually quit when I do that, it means I am frustrated and not really concentrating on my form.  Bill

[longbowguy]

Yes, being overbowed often causes shooting left. The reason is that you often short draw, slowing the arrow which then does not flex enough and flys left. Remedies are: 1, a lighter bow; 2, a longer draw or 3, heavier arrow heads, by two or more steps. Number 1 of course is  best, but if you are young and sturdy developing the strength for number two is possible. It is not wise as 50 pounds will kill most anything in North America and few men, very few in my experience, become really fine archers with as heavy a bow as 55 pounds.

The problem is not pulling it for a few shots. The problem is pulling it for the many times a week, month and year it takes to get really good with it.

It is possible to do most of your training and shooting with a lighter bow, 40 pounds or less, maybe 45 for a stout fellow, and become a fine archer, and then a month before hunting season carefully build up to 55 or more.

I have just done that again, in fact. But the first three weeks after I went up to 55 were a joke. Chums were telling me my arrows were wrongly spined and that my nock point and brace height were wrong. They weren't. In week four everything came together and I began to shoot that bow well so long as I did not shoot too many arrows in a day or week.

The need has passed after some fine hunts but no trophy and I am back to bows that weigh in the forties and that I can shoot well for several hundred arrows a week. Later I will drop to target bows in the thirties for the winter and indoor seasons.

Incidentally I am a sturdy fellow and can shoot much heavier bows; just not very often or very well. - lbg

[Marvin M.]

lbg,

I've been shooting 50 pounds and relatively well.  I wanted to go up on the possibility of getting drawn for elk.  My first thought with this was that it's too much of a jump.  I've never put the bow on a scale, so am not sure what the weight is, but a friend who shoots 60 pounds says that it is heavier than 55.  I need to check it and see.

Good advice from everyone.  I've got work to do.

[BLACK WOLF]

Marvin,

Here's just one suggest to train to increase your abilty to draw and shoot a heavier bow.

If you can only get a single shot off comfortably...I wouldn't use that to practice shooting with beyond the first shot if the following shots cause you to struggle and compromise your form and concentration.

To me...it's very similar to lifting weights...you really NEVER should cheat or compromise your form because you are fatigued.

My suggestion would be to shoot it as long as you don't feel fatigue to the point you have to cheat or compromise your form to draw and shoot your bow.

If you can comfortably shoot your bow only 10 times with good solid form than stop shooting at 10 shots and just draw the bow a few more times without shooting it and than rest...and than repeat as you feel needed.

The moment you're struggling to maintain form is the moment you should stop shooting and just draw the bow.

Ray

[Marvin M.]

Ray,

The first shot seems to be the problem.  I can usually bear down and bring it in after that.  Pulling the bow isn't the problem.

I'm thinking now that some of the other comments are closer to what is happening.  

I'll keep working on it.

[BLACK WOLF]

Marvin,

So it's more of a concentration and preperation thing?

If I'm understanding you correctly...it's kind of like your body and mind isn't prepared for what that first shot is going o feel like and after you feel how much effort is need to pull the bow after that first shot...you really bear down and apply yourself.

Is that kind of what you are trying to explain to me what's happening?

Ray  

[GroundHunter]

Overbowed or moving up in draw weight makes it harder to get even back tension on the bow arm, and the drawing arm, making your bowarm cast left at the release (for right handers).

Heavily overbowed can make you drop your drawing shoulder as well as dispense with back tension. If you can easily keep your drawing elbow up during the draw, you are probably not overbowed.

I shoot heavy bows and often drift into this left shooting problem. When I analyze my form, I nearly always find I'm not getting good back tension on the drawing arm, or my bow arm is too extended. It helps to straighten your back and square the shoulders for the draw, and feel the back tension in the drawing arm.

Also, try to keep the "push" in the push/pull draw which helps put even back tension on the bowarm, and reduces side cast.

Be sure you are not fully extending that bowarm. You can't keep pushing it if you are fully extended and locked out. That full extesion seems to allow the bowarm to pull left at release, for double trouble.

Finally, drawing a heavier weight with uneven back tension can make you shift your "line" of the arrow under your dominant eye to the left. It's the same as what's described above, but it's a visual check before the release. If that "line" is moved left correct it with back tension and a slightly bent, still pushing bowarm.

I've found that form correction makes a lot more differnce than arrow spine unless you are shooting arrows more than 10# off the spine for the draw weight, depending on whether your bow is more center shot (like a Tomahawk which easily shoots a a 20# spine range) or the old fasioned Hill type longbows which is sensitive to 10# over/under spined.


Hope this helps.

[Marvin M.]

Ray,

That seems to be it.  The first shot is always the worst.  After that, I can dial it in pretty good.  It may take two or three shots to get it there, but I can usually bring it in.  If I don't keep my concentration, it starts to drift left again.

My concern is that in a hunting situation, that first shot is the one that really counts.  Two weeks ago I took a doe with the Savannah.  If that shot had drifted left, it would not have been a good situation.

GH,

What you are saying makes sense.  I don't think the weight is too much for me, since I'm not struggling to get it back, but I'm definitely used to the lower weight.  I haven't paid any attention to the elbow, but will check on that tonight.

Thanks guys.

[Tilzbow]

Marvin,

The heavier weight may be affecting your alignment as GH addressed. Check out the link I'll post below and it may help explain a little bit more. It's a basic law of physics, "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". What this means is if your alignment is correct everything will go backwards and forwards equally. But if you right elbow isn't far enough back your left hand will move to the left upon release and could cause a left impact. Overdrawing the bow can result in right impacts for the same reason. Anyway, I'll search for the link to the thread Terry Green started about this subject and post it in minute. A picture is worth a 1,000 words!

[Tilzbow]

Here are some threads that might help illustrate some of what's being discussed regarding alignment.

  http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=004078;p=1  

  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=003278  

  http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002886#000000

[Marvin M.]

Excellent info guys.  I'll see if I can get my wife to take some pictures this weekend so I can get a better look at my form and what I am doing.

I must have missed most of that.  This is the first time I have seen those clock photos.

[longbowguy]

With any bow I tend to shoot left for the first dozen shots or so, unless I really concentrate on getting a full pull, which I may then overdo. So I always make a dozen or so warmup shots on the practice range, or in the field with a judo point before leaving the truck. During the day I will take more warm up shots, or at least draws to stay supple. - lbg