Shoot Opinion

[luvnlongbow]

I participated in a shoot yesterday that was advertised as both a Compound and Traditional shoot. This was a competitive shoot.The compound shooters were divided into the appropriate classes. However the Traditional shooters were lumped into one class. What is your opinion of this shoot? Should they have divided the Trad shooters into different classes (Longbow, Recurve, etc.) or do as they did and place all Trad shooters in one class?

[Killdeer]

How many, and of what variety, trad shooters were there?

Killdeer

[Leo L.]

Yea depending on how many it should have been divided.  Not all trad are created equal.

I like to have separate classes because then I can shoot more by getting there early and shooting more than one round. We have some clubs that have separate classes and some that don't in my area. The ones that don't have separate classes say it is because there are not enough shooters to justify spending the money on awards.

Bisch

[Chuck Hoopes]

I interpret your ? to be-- Should recurvers, and longbow men be in separate divisions?  
 In over 40yrs. of shooting, in all kinds of cirumstances,(including at least 100 3D's) I have not witnessed any decernible diff.   Some clubs do make a distinction, and make 2 divisions, as if longbow shooters are not as capable.  Yeah, tell that to H.Hill, B.Ferguson.  Its about the shooter, not the particular curve of the bow. Ive shot both, and watched others for so many years, that I can't imagine how someone thinks their is any quantifiable diff.  Its a silly myth.

[Over&Under]

I don't believe there should be different classes in the trad division, longbow and recurves are the same, it is just the shooter that makes the difference just as Chuck said.

The only division I can think of is maybe those with sights attached and those who don't, but there are not usually enough shooters with sights to make another class.

[luvnlongbow]

Killdeer, there were about 20 Trad shooters. The bows were Self, Longbow, and Recurve.

Chuck Hoopes, I agree that 'it is about the shooter'. However, I think that if you shoot a competative tournament then you should shoot with or against the folks that are shooting the same bow (ie. Longbow, Recurve, Self).

[Bear Heart]

Only divisions I see are men, women and children.  Sight shooters have their own class if there are enough of them, shoot against compound or don't shoot for a trophy.

[Chuck Hoopes]

Originally posted by luvnlongbow:
Killdeer, there were about 20 Trad shooters. The bows were Self, Longbow, and Recurve.

Chuck Hoopes, I agree that 'it is about the shooter'. However, I think that if you shoot a competative tournament then you should shoot with or against the folks that are shooting the same bow (ie. Longbow, Recurve, Self).

I think you answered your own question--you think they should all be seperated.  My experience tells me this is just not neccessary if all you are looking for is an even playing field.  There is however, enough justification to put Self bows in a seperate class, when shots exceed 25 or 30yds.  Iam guessing that you have not shot longbow and recurves long enough to realize that you do just as well w/ either at 3D shoots. I know I thought recurves were some big advantage, until I learned to shoot a LB.

[Chuck Hoopes]

Just a quick Post script--  Most of the longbows I see these days are Recurves in drag, anyway. Personally, I like 'em straight, and do not feel Iam at any disadvantage shooting against recurves.

[La. bowhunter]

In my area at the shoots for everyone we do not seperate by equipment but by skill. We have a trad. class and an advanced trad. class. At the trad.only shoots the classes are seperated by types of bows and the arrows you shoot.

[Dartwick]

Trad bow in general is moving to an era where there is blurry line between recurve and long bow.

It would be nice to have
-self bows(or all natural laminates maybe)
-off the shelf bare bow with no attachments
-anything else without wheels

[Rob DiStefano]

yes, some of the aggressive hybrid longbows are at least on par with most recurves in terms of efficiency and arrow speed.  

there's a way around most rules ...

the ifaa longbow rules specify that the braced longbow limbs follow a continuous arc, which would eliminate r/d longbows that show braced reflex in the tips.  enter the 'stealth r/d longbow' - 21st century edge was one of the first, if not the first longbow designed with aggressive r/d limbs that formed a classic 'd' shape when braced.  yet the ifaa allows these 'ringer' longbows to compete against reflexed hill-style longbows ... clearly, the edge and acs are a definite advantage.

i like the muzzy rules - longbow and recurve are each a class by themselves.  if the string loops only touch the limb nocks then it's a longbow.  i would go a step further and add a primitive class for any one piece, or organic backed, straight, or slightly reflexed, selfbows (ala hill style).  the cool thing about the muzzy is that the longbow and recurve winners shoot together for overall champ, and longbow has won many times!

i'll further add - if the shoot is barebow only, then i don't care what kinda bows are allowed, but i'll never ever again attend a shoot where barebow and freestyle bow (sights) are allowed - i could grow lots older just waiting for those release aid wheelbow shooters to get off one arrow in less than 3 minutes!  ack!!!

[luvnlongbow]

Thank you all for your opinions. I have been shooting a longbow for a while. Also shooting 3-d for a number of years. All the shoots I have attended had different classes for different bows and age groups, so this shoot just struck me as odd. Thanks again all.

[Rob DiStefano]

soap box rap ...., sorry ....

back in the mid 60's i formed an archery/bowhunting club that grew to over 250 members.  we had our own 28 target field course and regularly held nfaa tournaments.  now, this was the beginning of the compound craze and it was insane with the number of shooting classes and trophies that had to be created - separate mens, womens, youth boys and girls, cadet boys and girls, classes for barebow hunter, barebow target, freestyle, stickbow and compound versions of everything (yikes!), and trophies to at least 3 places for every single class. do the math and realize how many dozens of trophies were required!  now *that* was insanity!
 
considering all the different types of bows, ways to aim them, ways to grip and release the string, it's a mess!  

to me, the most important thing about shooting a bow is the archer, first and foremost.  Next comes the arrow, then the bow, then the string.  The rest don't mean much, and i've seen archers with self bows outshoot decent archers with whizbang recurves.

for a stickbow only trad club, and considering most trad events have marks between 10 and 35 yards, i'd prefer event rules were the main class has men and women shooting together, another arbitrary class for all kids 13 and under.  

equipment classes would be "modern stickbow" and "primitive", where "primitive" means plain or organic backed straight to slightly reflexed selfbows.  

there, how's that for stirrin' up the pot?  :D

[Dartwick]

I like your second post the first one had my attention though.

Too many long time long time longbow shooters think people are trying to get "around most rules".

When the real issue is the bows we use have changed.

Most people shooting modern longbows/hyrids have no issue at all shooting against similar recurves.
But many are uncomfortable shooting against someone with a plunger, sights, protruding stabilizers and etc.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Dartwick:
... Most people shooting modern longbows/hyrids have no issue at all shooting against similar recurves.

But many are uncomfortable shooting against someone with a plunger, sights, protruding stabilizers and etc.

that's the crux of the matter - if yer a trad barebow stickbow club, there are no sights or bow do-dads to be concerned about because freestyle isn't an option.  and i have no problem shooting my splitfinger grip/release against an archer shooting 3 fingers under.  the only bowhand grip rule would be that at least one finger touches the arrow nock.