Another one of those "Anchor point"questions

[dbishop]

After reading several of the posts on here concerning anchor points and draw length I have a question.  From what I gather, you do not actually achieve full draw until your string arm (forearm)is in line with your arrow.  Am I correct?  I am new to the traditional archery and I have been drawing the string to the corner of my mouth with the base knuckle of my thumb under the rear portion of my upper jaw.  In order for me to get my forearm and arrow in line with one another I have to draw a little farther until my fingers are under my jaw.  Does this sound correct?  I have been trying to achieve "back tension" like I have read about but I dont seem to be getting there(with my current anchor point).  Will back tension automatically happen when the string and forearm line up when I pull that little extra distance?

I am currently trying a Toelke whip that is 54.5Lbs @ 28". If I draw back enough to line up my forearm with my arrow I am right at 29.5.  Drawing to the corner of my mouth, I am right at 28.5 or so.

I am not sure which anchor I should use.

thanks
Dave

[moebow]

dbishop,  I'll give this a shot.  Generally you are correct about the string forearm and alignment -- depending on body type there may be slight variences.  I think you will find that if the only way to get that alignment is to draw farther, you will not be using your back just your shoulder and arm.  It sounds like you are a little collapsed in your shoulders.  As you reach full draw try opening your shoulder position a little more by sticking your chest out.  By that I mean where your collar bones attach to your sternum not your ribs.  Perhaps another way to say it would be to say, as you reach full draw pull your shoulders back.

I know I'm fumbling with the explanation a little but if you use your back muscles to pull your drawing shoulder back the effect is to feel like you're sticking your upper chest out.  That will give you the forearm alignment you seek without pulling your drawing hand back farther along your face.

[dbishop]

Moebow.

Actually, what you say makes perfect sense to me. I have been feeling like I was not actually getting the back tension I needed.  I was trying to achieve it by pushing my shoulder blades together but I never felt like I was able to do so.  Pushing my chest foward feels more natural and seems like it would provide the same results.  I will have to try it when I get home this evening.  I have not been shooting more than about 1-2 months and I am trying to get all the info I can.  I hate to start out with a bunch of bad habits that wind up being hard to break later on.

Thanks for the help.

Dave

[s_mcflurry]

Dave,

Moebow's explanation was quite good, actually.  I'm going to add a bit to that.  To feel what muscles should be activated during the draw, try this.

Hold your hand and draw arm as if at full draw.  Have someone stand behind you and push on the elbow of your draw arm.  Your job is to push back against their hand.  If done correctly, your lower trapezius (at the end of your scapula and near your spine) should be activated.  You'll also notice that your scapula feels like it's going to pop out.

For me, it helps to think "move the elbow back" instead of "move my draw hand back".

[moebow]

s_mcflurry,  I agree 100%.  Trying to explain verbally ALWAYS takes second seat to one-on-one coaching.  There are several things an on-site coach can do to make the process clear.

[dbishop]

s_mcflurry,

I will try that when I get the chance. I can see where that would help me find out if I am doing it right.  After reading what moebow said earlier I went and shot a little bit this evening.  I only got to shoot maybe 40 shots at the most.  I really concentrated on making my draw and then pushing my chest out(not too much but enough to feel my draw increase)and trying to make a smooth release.  I dont know if I am doing it exactly right but I definitely shot better.  I also checked my draw length while doing this and it was a shade over 29".  I was still using the corner of my mouth for an anchor point with the inside base of my thumb anchored behind my jaw just foward of my ear.  I know I gained at least a 1/2" to 3/4" of draw length from the previous way I was shooting. Actually,  the bow feels more comfortable this way.  I will continue to try this and see if I improve.

Thanks again for the help guys.

Dave

[s_mcflurry]

I should've thought of this earlier.  I used to describe back tension during full draw like a morning yawn...where you're stretching your chest, with your arms in the "chicken dance" position, and it's almost like you're trying to touch your elbows behind your back.

Just don't try this in public...