Nock Issues????? Spine or Form???? Please Help!!!!

[Grassman34]

I finally decided to strip the fletching off of one of my 6 new arrows, after shooting for last four weeks with my,  new to me Jordan Stalker. I wanted to check the arrow spine before I go to get more arrows.  I am shooting,  51# @ 27" most consistently (and 55# @ 28” max),  62 AMO with fast flight string. Arrows 29" Beman MFX Classic 400(10.4 GPI), with 4" Feathers, 70 grain HIT brass inserts, and 100 grain points (Cut at 29" for finger room with broadheads).  Total arrow weight of 495 grains.  I shoot split finger and while testing was very surprised with my results.  Arrow spine was perfect hitting dead center with fletched arrows but the arrows are stuck into target with nock high about 2-3" higher than fletched arrows.  Moved nock up and down and the best I can get this is within that two inches.  Any suggestions on what is going on? Is it my form, or release, or is it something with the nock. By the way my fletched arrows seem to shoot like darts no wobbling that I have noticed at all and grouping great. Also I tend to shot my recurve more upright than canted.

[Grassman34]

Is everyone on vacation!! Usually a question like this would be bombarded with responses?

[Cable Guy]

I've only been shooting 2 yrs.....so if my fletched arrows shot like darts, I'd be out enjoying them.
Life is too short.

[Big Bird]

I have 21 recurves and they all tuned good but one.like you hits nock hi no matter what I do.but shot good groups.so I went out and shot broadheads out of it.and they hit with field points so I will leave it be.try broadheads out of it. and see how they fly.broadheads will tell you if not tuned right.

[Grassman34]

Thank going to try broadheads now!

[Cable Guy]

Im curious.
So I tuned my arrows with field points...Everything is on the money.

If I switched to the same grain broadheads...what will that reveal?

The reason I ask is because there was never any mention of broadheads or hunting in the original text, and now there is an interest in them.

Excuse my inexperience, but I'd like to know.

[Grassman34]

From my years of compound shooting I know that you can do all the tuning you want and never be able to get a broadhead to fly correctly.  They are the true test to how well your bow is tuned.  I also now that with some of the newer broadheads on the market such as G5 montecs and others they do give the same flight as field points.  But they don't have the larger cutting diameters of the older cut on contacts usually used for traditional bows.  The reason for the difference between the two is that the larger blades catch the wind similar to fletching and steer the arrow from the front and if the arrow leaves the bow incorrectly the rear of the arrow will follow the path of the mis directed broadhead.

I never worry about knock high, low, right or left.  I'm only concerned about grouping my bare shaft with the arrows. I get them on at 12 yards and back up from there, making minor adjustments.

[Cable Guy]

Wow....it makes sense.

Now Im compelled to strip off an arrow and see whats 'under the hood' sorta speak for myself.

Thanks.

[Big Bird]

Originally posted by Grassman34:
From my years of compound shooting I know that you can do all the tuning you want and never be able to get a broadhead to fly correctly.  They are the true test to how well your bow is tuned.  I also now that with some of the newer broadheads on the market such as G5 montecs and others they do give the same flight as field points.  But they don't have the larger cutting diameters of the older cut on contacts usually used for traditional bows.  The reason for the difference between the two is that the larger blades catch the wind similar to fletching and steer the arrow from the front and if the arrow leaves the bow incorrectly the rear of the arrow will follow the path of the mis directed broadhead.

well stated. compound and recurves can be tuned to shoot broadheads and field points together.but the wider the broadhead is for tuning the better.

[Bill Skinner]

Don't forget, the broadhead is also longer than a field point, it can and will change the spine of the arrow.  Bill

[bshunter]

I've read here before that if your elbow is to high; that it will cause you to put too much pressure on the nock when shooting split and cause a nock high.

[Grassman34]

The funny thing is that today while shooting I tried lowering my elbow because the lower side of my ring finger was starting to get sore. I figured that maybe it was from my arm being to high and I was pleasantly surprised that it did help with the flight of my bare shaft. Still had high nock flight but was only about an inch higher than feather grouping.

[xtrema312]

Originally posted by Grassman34:
I finally decided to strip the fletching off of one of my 6 new arrows, after shooting for last four weeks with my,  new to me Jordan Stalker. I wanted to check the arrow spine before I go to get more arrows.  I am shooting,  51# @ 27" most consistently (and 55# @ 28” max),  62 AMO with fast flight string. Arrows 29" Beman MFX Classic 400(10.4 GPI), with 4" Feathers, 70 grain HIT brass inserts, and 100 grain points (Cut at 29" for finger room with broadheads).  Total arrow weight of 495 grains.  I shoot split finger and while testing was very surprised with my results.  Arrow spine was perfect hitting dead center with fletched arrows but the arrows are stuck into target with nock high about 2-3" higher than fletched arrows.  Moved nock up and down and the best I can get this is within that two inches.  Any suggestions on what is going on? Is it my form, or release, or is it something with the nock. By the way my fletched arrows seem to shoot like darts no wobbling that I have noticed at all and grouping great. Also I tend to shot my recurve more upright than canted.

Sounds kind of stiff on arrow set-up to me.  You can have the arrow hitting the riser or even hitting the edge of the shelf and if you are consistent they will still group and look to fly ok to the eye.  I have been there.  I was shooting about what you are with a 28" draw and 29" arrows only with a little more weight up front than you have; more like 225 gr.  Now I shoot the same bow at 30" draw and 2" longer arrows with the same weight up front, and I shoot better yet.  Arrows bare shaft group well, but now I don't get the edge of shelf wear or times when I just can't figure out my flyers.  

I also have the nock high thing a lot.  Some was from the way I grip the string and shelf contact with the over stiff arrows.  I still have some nock high I can't seem to get to go away, but I also have over 20% FOC.  I think that has some affect because with a lower FOC arrow I get flatter bare shaft flight.  I don't think I can get target arrow bare shaft flight from a high FOC hunting arrow.  I could be wrong.  

With group bare shafting it is the group of bare shafts to fletched shafts relation you are looking for not where the nock is when in the target.  Target type can change the way the arrow sticks in the target.

I would recommend that you start full length on arrows and maybe try some 500 spine arrows before you get and cut down a bunch more.  Start way weak so you don't over shoot the stiffness.

[Grassman34]

xtrema312,
Do you think that I need to try adding some weight to the front of my current arrows to see how that effects the flight also?  I have only been shooting recurve for about three weeks and my draw length varies between 27" to 28" and I feel like once my strength builds up 28" will be my consistent draw length so I hate to start out to week shafted then when my weight goes up from 51# to 55# have to go get new arrows.

[xtrema312]

I would try point weights.  It never hurts to really drive the arrow weak to make sure.  A nice supply of points from 100-225 or more is your best friend with carbons.  Those and any different insert weights you can get.  Get two of the test weight point sets from 3 Rivers or the like.  About 6 each will  get you what you need to check tune and have a few arrow to shot at any given tune.  I always use hot melt glue so I can fine tune as my form, bow weight, and draw length adjusted over the first year or so.

I went from about a 28" draw and 45# when I started serious getting back into trad shooting to 50 & 57@30.  Without the points and inserts to play with as my bows got heavier and draw longer I would have burned through a lot of arrows.  I do have some 29 arrows I don't shoot anymore and some 30" I shoot only for field points and of course they are on the shelf.

You just can't go wrong having various points and inserts in your trad parts pile.

[Grassman34]

Thanks xtrema312!
I am just starting out, and have even considered switching to gold tip arrows because of the adjustable weights that can be screwed into the backs of the inserts.  I will invest in some more field points and work from there.  I don't mean to change the subject but, I see you are from Kalamazoo, MI, would you recommend the trad show up there next month?  Its about 5 hours from my house.  Not sure weather to come up or wait for some of the shoots in Ohio to kick off in May.

[xtrema312]

I think it is a great show, but I don't have to drive 5-hours.  I am also new to all the custom bows that are available.  I used to just shoot old Indians, Persons, and Bear bows.  Last year was my first year to go.  So for me it is like a kid in a candy store to see and shoot some really top of the line stuff.  I don't know how it would compare to a really big shoot because I don't go to them, but if you ask on the trad event forum where it is listened or on Pow Wow you can get some input from those who have been to a lot more shoots and shows.

If the weather is good what else are you going to do in January?  May is a long time off, and I need a fix of shooting a lot of nice bows so I will probably be there all three days.

[xtrema312]

There is a post right now in Pow Wow on the Kzoo show.  Check it out and ask some questions.