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Author Topic: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.  (Read 1081 times)

Offline Eric73

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Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« on: January 27, 2010, 12:07:00 PM »
Has anyone ever attended either of these Shooting schools? The Black Widow clinic is taught by Ken Beck and Fred Asbell and The Ferguson school is taught by Byron.

I was hoping some people out there might have gone to one or the other and be able to tell me about them. As well as thoughts on how effective they are. I really want to go to one as I have been shooting for years and hit a plato that is only average and I would like to move beyond that. The shooters I shoot with either do not shoot bare Bow or are right about where I am and can not find my errors in form or help me move on. So to me these clinics sound like a great way to get past my issues and at least find my issues so I can work o them.

I would really like to hear some peoples thoughts on the validity and if anyone has personal experience I would like to hear about it.

Oh I shoot both LongBows and Recurves the Longbows are 65 and 70# and the Recurves are 55 and 60#
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Offline moebow

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2010, 01:55:00 PM »
Eric,  I went to both of those schools last year.  I liked and enjoyed both and got something out of both.  

The BW/ Asbell school is form work and all close shooting for form and the Asbell swing draw method.  My class had about 22 folks in it and Ken and Fred were great, but not a lot of up close personal attention as you might imagine.  Two instructors and 22 students.  All great folks and a lot of interchange within the class.

A month later I was at Byron's class.  Good accomodations at the Goodman ranch.  Only 8 in the class and the better part of three days of shooting, to include areal targets on the last day.  Byron stayed with us pretty much the full time (Fred seemed to disappear after the class).  Talking to Byron and the other 7 students was great and instructional.

I would go to either/both schools again but if I had to choose only one it would be Byron's class hands down.

Hope this helps.  Feel free to email me we could set up a phone call if you'd like to chat about my experiences at the two schools.
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline Eric73

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2010, 02:22:00 PM »
Wow, That is great you actually made it to both last year. I am only going to do one and I was just trying to make the best decision.

Did Byrons Class really help you improve your shooting? How was the Arial shooting at the end? Were all the Archers really advanced at the class?

Offline TexasTrad

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2010, 06:48:00 PM »
Just a thought -- You may want to also consider Rick Welch's school.  I attended and it was very helpful.  It is a one on one school and Rick is a very effective teacher.

Offline waiting4fall

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2010, 06:58:00 PM »
Only because someone else mentioned Rick Welch, I'm going to provide you info if interested. If not it's all good, just overlook my post. Best of luck.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/DAKOTAENTERPRISES#p/u/6/h5TcPR2Lz78

 http://www.youtube.com/user/DAKOTAENTERPRISES#p/u/11/aVeKKtdqHM8

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2010, 07:50:00 PM »
Rod Jenkins too.

Offline Keith Karr

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2010, 09:18:00 PM »
I have attended Fred's class in 2001, Rick Welch class in 2007 and then worked with Rod Jenkins in 2008.

Go to one of Rod's classes it will be the best choice. Your will learn more in two days than you can in two years. Where ever you go be patient, you will still have to come home and work, work,work.

Do a search for Rod Jenkins on powpow. There are several classes this year.

Good luck!
Keith Karr

Offline Eric73

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2010, 02:16:00 PM »
After looking at them all I am going to make it to Ferguson school this year. I will keep the others in mind for next year. Thanks
For all the help

Offline Cmalone1

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2010, 11:28:00 PM »
Does anybody have a link to these schools or the cost of them? I would be interested in going but I wouldn't know where to start...

Coty

Offline Ragnarok Forge

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2010, 05:13:00 PM »
The wife and I are attending a shooting weekend in Hood River this year with Rod Jenkins, it is being put on by Raptor Archery.  I am looking at trying to attend Rick Welch's school next year.   I would like to go to Byron's school but with the wife in college, the airfare, and lodging costs aren't in my budget right now.  I figure that any of the schools will provide insights and tips to improve your shooting.  I figure the more hands on instruction you get the better yoru eventual results will be.
Clay Walker
Skill is not born into anyone.  It is earned thru hard work and perseverance.

Offline Little Duck

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2010, 06:03:00 PM »
I am new to archery.  Only about four months shooting am 68 years old and wanted to get a foundation  to work with.  I attended the Rick Welch school and must say it was great.  I did a lot of shooting for an old guy. Rick was with me at all times and we talked about my form my equipment and my shooting.  I improved at least 90 % in two days.  I now feel I could go to the woods and get a clean kill. Rick is a very good teacher.

Offline Dan White

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2010, 08:50:00 AM »
Here is a PM from Rod a week before he had a heart attack. I have not acted on this, I have scheduled hunting trips in for this year, so my schedule is tight. Please keep me in the loop for anything close to Missouri. It is long and I will post his class content next:

Hi Dan,

Clinics normally cost$225 ea, sometimes added range fees runs costs up a little. If you would like to organize a clinic in MO...I need a minimum of 10 and a max of 12. Here's a list of the clinics already booked.

Thanks,

Rod

This is a list of the Confirmed Clinics I will be holding in 2010.
I'm also availble for private coaching in Decatur, AL and can come to your location for private coaching or a group clinic

Texas 2 day Clinic...Contact Mike Westwang (817)594-5578

3/13-14
3/20-21


PA 2 Day Clinic......Contact Lancaster Archery (717)394-7229
4/10-11


MI 2 Day Clinic.....Contact Lost Nation (269) 659-6002
4/23-24


MI 2 Day Clinic.....Contact Scott Bills [email protected]
5/8-9


WI 2 Day Ladies Clinic Contact Sue (715) 536-3503
5/15-16


MN 2 Day Clinc
6/17-18


OR 2 DAY Clinic....contact Raptor Archery (541)386-4503
6/26-27


Australia

8/7-8
8/14-15

Norway

8/28-19

Offline Dan White

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2010, 08:52:00 AM »
Here is the class content:
Dan,

We discuss various aiming methods, but the clinic are about form and technique. Aiming methods are such a small part, I prefer to focus on learning how to execute perfect shots.

Here's a cut on paste of the general class outline.

1 Introduction of 7 steps to excellence program

2 Learning to draw the bow utilizing the proper muscles

3 Individual shot analysis and correction

4 Formaster training

5 Practice drills to reinforce the 7 steps

6 Strengthening the mental game

7 Aiming methods discussion

8 Question and answer session

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2004 IBO World Champion

Offline Keith Karr

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2010, 09:27:00 AM »
Rod Jenkins shooting clinic in Bremen, Ga.

One day clinic on Saturday, May 29 2010.

Cost $125 - Limited to 12 shooters. 3 spots left -9 already committed.

Bremen, Ga is just off I-20 about 50 miles west of Atlanta and 100 miles east of Birmingham, Al.

Call 404-372-9515 verizon or PM me if interested.
Keith Karr

Offline Steve Kendrot

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2010, 07:46:00 PM »
I took Rod's course a couple weeks ago and it was FANTASTIC. He teaches a method that ANY archer will benefit from. After 17 years of shooting, I finally understand what Back tension feels like!

Some of the others mentioned are undeniable talents, but shoot in a way that only a small percentage of archers can master. Rod's course will make everyone a better archer IMO.

Offline Eric73

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2010, 11:52:00 AM »
Here is what I thought of Byrons class. It was not set up with anything more then a loose schedule of the days so we never felt rushed. Each day we started out with breakfast and spoke about the basic outline of the day. We would practice in the morning break for lunch then get back out there and work on our shooting. Another thing I really licked was Byron was there with us the whole time from Dawn to late into the night telling stories or helping us work on our shooting.
 Byron’s an excellent teacher and here are some of the things I liked. He did not really lecture much at all about proper shooting technique, instead he would have us shoot and he would observer all the students. As we shot he would stand behind or beside each of us at different points and watch. Then we would make one of our mistakes and then as I would hit left. He then would explain to me that was caused by not using the back muscles and help me feel the tension and release the next would hit the center.  
Byron’s class was very educational and I think for me the best part was that he would show you how to fix your errors and realize you what error you were doing. This really helped after I returned because I can now feel when I am making a mistake and know what to work on. This in and of itself made the class worth it to me. I also increased my current shooting skill drastically. Not only were we all shooting golf balls at 20 yards accurately but we were able to shoot skeet with our bows and hit at least 50% of the time. That may not seem like a lot but shooting skeet with the Bow and arrow is harder than you might think. All in all I would defiantly suggest the class to anyone who want to shoot the bare bow and improve.  The Goodman Ranch was great the place is very nice you get great rooms and more than enough good food.
I would like people that have been to other classes to post their thoughts and the teaching styles of the instructor. It turns out two of the other people at the class had read this thread and it helped them choose. If people explain the teaching styles of each instructor and the class it will help pick the class each of will fit in the best

Offline moebow

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2010, 12:55:00 PM »
Eric73 and all others interested.

Earlier in this thread, I described what I thought about the G Fred Asbel/Ken Beck Black Widow shooting school and Byron Ferguson's class at the Goodman ranch.  I went to both of those schools last year.

Since then, I went to NFAA headquarters in Yankton, SD to get the Community Coach's rating ( used to be known as level 3) from Larry Wise and MJ Rogers.  This was full immersion in the BEST (Biomechanically Efficient Shooting Technique)system, also known as the NTS (National Training System). Consider this to be Form-Form-Form!  and YES this is the Olympic target system.

This spring, I went to Bob Wesley's Whispering Pines shooting school.  Bob is one of the last instructors that actually learned for the master himself -- Howard Hill.  Bob's class is strictly one on one.  Two days learning Howard's system.  Again it is heavily into form but done in a slightly different manner and also concentrates on split vision aiming.  Having good form when you get there allows the student to progress a long ways to really hitting what you are shooting at.  But if you need form improvement, Bob absolutely knows how to do it.  He has probably been instructing longer than any of the others.

Then this month, June, I went to Rod Jenkin's class that was held at the Rapids archery Club in Coon Rapids, MN.  As has been said above, Rod can and does teach you the true meaning of back tension and really good form. He's as good as they come getting you to shoot correctly.

About the only commonly talked about instructor that I haven't been to now is Rick Welch.  Maybe someday.

You may wonder why I'm taking so many classes and the answer is simple.  As an instructor, I'm trying to be the best that I can be and taking all these classes has given me multiple ways or approaches to delivering information to my students.  Filling my tool box -- as it were.

There is literally no way I know to determine who is the best.  They all have seriously good skills and slightly different ways to get to the end result.  What works for one student may not work for the next but these folks have the expertise to adapt to a student that is willing to learn.

"Willing to learn!"  Now we're into my editorial comment and this is my observation only and not meant to start an argument!  I see many threads here and elsewhere that try to suggest a difference between formal target archery and hunting "style" archery.  Folks, form is form. Learn the form standing straight up first then you can much more easily adapt it to the situation.  If you watch the clips of Howard, Fred or any of the other really good shots, you will see that they all have one thing in common and that is the SAME good form.  The alignment of the string arm with the arrow, the alignment of the bow hand to the shoulders -- getting bone on bone support.  It doesn't matter if they're laying down, squating, kneeling, or standing.  Good archery form is the same for all and yes even the good compound shooters.

If you are interested in really improving your shooting,  pick an instructor, and go to the school with the thought that you will do what the instructor tells you AND do it long enough (most will say about 20 days of shooting) that it becomes second nature.  However if you go with the thought that "I've been doing this for ___ years and he's not going to get me to change this or that, then you're wasting your time and money.  And you will probably see that instructor in a less than favorable light.


This is the longest post I've ever made and as I said earlier, I'm not trying to start an argument just addressing some of the comments I've seen over time. IF THE STUDENT IS READY AND OPEN, ONLY THEN WILL THE INSTRUCTION BE A SUCCESS.
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline 71flh

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Re: Thoughts on shooting Schools? Balck Widow or Ferguson.
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2010, 10:11:00 PM »
Eric73,
I too was at your class, and you did really well shooting the "skeet" (much better than I). Our class was much smaller than the others listed and we truely got 3 days of almost one on one with Byron. The Goodman Ranch was great, as was the food. A big "thank you" to Mike and his staff. I teach the youth in our community bare bow archery, and some have reached the point of hitting ping pong balls at 10-15 yards pretty consistantly using the meathods we learned from Byron. I would love to be able to go to all the classes that moebow has been to, he is right about being the best you can be. By the way, next month my wife and I are going to Jay St Charles for our bow building class.

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