Me At Full Draw

[HUNT 24/7]

I just had my lovely wife take some pic's of me at full draw in the basement, please help me with my stance or forum, I have been shooting a bow for 6.5 hours total so keep it simple for now haha.

I really want to learn how to shoot properly,  Thanks
   
   
   

There she is, have at er boy's  

[McDave]

In picture #2, it looks like you might not quite be coming to full draw, where your drawing forearm is in line with the arrow, viewed from above.  I would have liked to validate that in picture #3, but the angle is wrong to see your drawing forearm and the arrow.

In picture #2, it looks like you may be torqueing the string a little.  Possibly putting a little counterclockwise twist in the string with your drawing fingers.  Your drawing hand needs to be completely relaxed, so the back of your drawing hand is parallel with the string.  Maybe it is; the easiest way to tell is to relax your bow hand momentarily and see if the bow wants to straighten up more.  If so, you are torqueing the string.  It doesn't take much of a torque to throw the shot off to the left.

[foamkiller]

In pictures 2 & 3 it looks like if you release those waders are toast.

[HUNT 24/7]

Originally posted by McDave:
In picture #2, it looks like you might not quite be coming to full draw, where your drawing forearm is in line with the arrow, viewed from above.

I draw my bow untill my pointer finger is in the corner of my mouth by my incisor tooth. Do you think I should pull it back further? I'm asking only because I have no idea where to draw to, not to argue with you, haha.

[/QUOTE]In picture #2, it looks like you may be torqueing the string a little.  Possibly putting a little counterclockwise twist in the string with your drawing fingers. [/b][/QUOTE]
That explains why I am missing left a bit, thank you so much.

I will post some better pic's when I get the chance.

You guy's really know your stuff

[HUNT 24/7]

I ordered "Hitting 'Em Like Howard Hill" DVD for when I start using my Howard Hill bow. That should help.

[McDave]

I think most people have it backwards: they decide what their anchor point will be and then try to make it work.  I think people should come to full draw, and then work out an anchor point wherever their hand ends up.  Some people use a thumb knuckle behind the jaw bone; some use the thumb knuckle touching the earlobe.  See what's convenient when you come to full draw.

Also be aware that you shouldn't just continue hauling back on the arrow.  When you draw the arrow almost all the way back, your back muscles come into play and begin to hold the string.  At that point your drawing elbow should begin to move around toward your spine, as if you were going to bop someone with your elbow who is standing behind you.  So the last little bit of movement, from where I perceive your drawing forearm to be in picture #2, to where it should be in line with the arrow at full draw, shouldn't really draw the arrow back very much, if any.

[HUNT 24/7]

Originally posted by McDave:
Also be aware that you shouldn't just continue hauling back on the arrow.  When you draw the arrow almost all the way back, your back muscles come into play and begin to hold the string.  At that point your drawing elbow should begin to move around toward your spine, as if you were going to bop someone with your elbow who is standing behind you.  So the last little bit of movement, from where I perceive your drawing forearm to be in picture #2, to where it should be in line with the arrow at full draw, shouldn't really draw the arrow back very much, if any.

So to come to full draw I need to flex my back muscles & my forearm should make a straight line with my arrow, correct????

[McDave]

That's correct, and as you increase tension on your back muscles, at some point the arrow should be subconsciosly released, so that there is no interruption in your increase in back tension to the conclusion of the shot.

[Whump]

Whump Sez: don't stick your elbow up in the air, that will cause string torque and a high shot. If you have to-- tie a string on your elbow and hook it to your belt but don't get in the habit of raising your elbow up when you come to anchor, it should be parallel to the floor. Try to imagine holding a baseball between your shoulder blades when you are at full draw and that will help bring your back into the draw instead of your arm muscles only. You can also relax your grip a bit on the bow, A tight grip  will throw a shot off to the left on some riser designs.If you are getting a Hill style bow you can grip it some without torquing the riser." Mcdaves "  advice is on the money. Hunt safe.

[HUNT 24/7]

O.K, I was just practicing drawing my bow in the mirror trying some of your tips.
 When I tried to make my forearm run in a straight line with my arrow, my string hand finished with the string past my right ear. Any idea what I might be doing wrong to finish so far back?

 Also, I tried the back tension thing & when I flexed my back muscles it makes my chest hit my bow string. I think back tension is something that will just happen in time with some practice..........................I will keep practicing haha.

Wow, there is so much I need to learn, better get at er.

[Earthdog]

Your not fully expanding and with only 6.5 hours behind you,,that's no suprise.

Give yourself a couple of months an your shoulders will become stronger,your back will become stronger,you will gain an over all more up right posture in general.
Give your self more time to develope that better posture and your archery stance will follow it.

Best,
ED.

[tradtusker]

For 6.5 hours i think your doing Dam good!    

[McDave]

If you're drawing the bow until your string hand is behind your ear, it probably means you are drawing the bow with your arm muscles rather than your back muscles.  Look at Terry's form clock, which is a permanent post at the top of this forum.  Pretend to draw the bow without a bow in your hands.  At a certain point, you ought to be able to contract the muscle behind your right shoulder blade, moving your shoulder blade toward your spine,which will bring your drawing forearm around so it is in line with your imaginary arrow.  This should be possible to do without drawing your imaginary arrow back much further.  If you are correctly using your back muscles, you should be able to come to full draw without drawing the arrow back past your ear.

If this action makes the bowstring hit your chest, you can either open up your stance a little, which will move the bow enough away from your body to allow string clearance, or you can close your stance even more, which will allow you to draw the bow so the string is to the left of your chest, close to your arm.  In this posture, the string might touch your chest at full draw, but can't hit your chest when you shoot the bow.  Both of these postures are discussed in Masters of the Bare Bow III, which I second as being a very worthwhile teaching video.

I saw a photo of me shooting my Black Widow target form.  I looked like i was trying to fall away from the target. My middle finger was doing all of the work while my ring finger was almost slack, my left arm was locked, my neck looked cramped.  Then I looked at some photos of me shooting my bamboo Jerry Hill. My drawing elbow was back and level with the arrow, my ring finger was engaged, my head was in a natural tilted position, my shoulders were in line with the target, my bow arm was bent, my anchor was the middle finger just past and below the corner of my mouth, my bow was canted about 60 degrees and the 261/4" net length arrow was drawn onto the bow. They were action shots of me shooting at a clay pigeon.  I wanted to see what I looked like when I was shooting fast.
   you look like you have a good start on things, you will develop a stronger release, if you follow John and Jerry's advice, you will stop leaning away from the bow, you will have the appearance of someone that is zeroed in on the target, you will be able to shoot that Hill bow, and you will have fun with all this. Keep it Hill style and keep it natural.  On the DVD Tembo, there is a short film "Points Om Arrows". It has some of the best shots of Hill shooting out there. Also, if you are good with the pause button, you can catch Hill's arrow at the release. You can learn a lot from watching that, once you understand what the form is all about.

[Molson]

Photos can be deceiving, but it looks to me like your bow arm and shoulders are in a straight line which means your drawing hand and bow hand are not going to be aligned when you anchor to the corner of your mouth.  That is why your string is hitting your side when you draw and your elbow is out of alignment with the shaft.  Basically you would torque the string hand off to the right and bow to the left on release.  

Try moving your bow hand to the right, keeping the shoulders parallel with the arrow and the drawing hand parallel with the string and bow hand.  Then when you push/pull your draw it will be in a straight line and your back muscles will be able to move the elbow back where it should be.

Look at Terry's Form Clock and you will see there are three "power" points to align.  The way your photo looks to me, your bow hand and shoulders would be connected by one line which would make it near impossible for you to get back tension unless you anchored under the chin.

Back tension is not something that will happen over time.  It happens when you have proper alignment.  The reason you had to draw so far back to get your forearm to line up is because you are drawing with your arm muscles and the bicep was in the way.

Hopefully I explained that right.

[HUNT 24/7]

Originally posted by Molson:
Photos can be deceiving, but it looks to me like your bow arm and shoulders are in a straight line which means your drawing hand and bow hand are not going to be aligned when you anchor to the corner of your mouth.  That is why your string is hitting your side when you draw and your elbow is out of alignment with the shaft.  Basically you would torque the string hand off to the right and bow to the left on release.  

Try moving your bow hand to the right, keeping the shoulders parallel with the arrow and the drawing hand parallel with the string and bow hand.  Then when you push/pull your draw it will be in a straight line and your back muscles will be able to move the elbow back where it should be.

Look at Terry's Form Clock and you will see there are three "power" points to align.  The way your photo looks to me, your bow hand and shoulders would be connected by one line which would make it near impossible for you to get back tension unless you anchored under the chin.

Back tension is not something that will happen over time.  It happens when you have proper alignment.  The reason you had to draw so far back to get your forearm to line up is because you are drawing with your arm muscles and the bicep was in the way.

Hopefully I explained that right.

That makes sense, you are right about my bow arm being in line with my shoulder, it's almost straight out from my shoulder, that would bring my bow & string closer to my body, correct?

I'll string my bow & do some practicing  


You guy's are a great help, thanks  

[HUNT 24/7]

BINGO!!!!!!! THAT WAS IT!!!!!!!!

It only took me one draw with my bow arm a little further from my body & my string forearm was inline with my arrow, AND I could feel my back muscles working instantly!!!!!


Nice work guy's with such a crappy picture!

Once again                  

[HUNT 24/7]

I went to the club to do some shooting & work on some of the things you told me.
 
 The first thing was getting my bow arm away from my body to square up my string arm with my arrow. When I did that it made my arrows hit centered, they were always off to the left some. I must have been twisting the string before like someone had mentioned.

 I also figured out back tension, I think the reason I had problems before is because I was pushing my bow arm & shoulder towards the target, instead of relaxing it. When I relaxed my shoulder I was able to feel my blades pinch together & my muscles working.

 After I did those 2 things my shooting was much better & more consistant.

 I also shot the 3D course for the first time last night, 77 out of 200 haha, got a ways to go. I really had alot of fun though. Our indoor course is between 10 & 25 yards.

Overall, I am learning lots & having a tonne of fun, 8.5 hours & counting.

[TheFatboy]

Thumbs up for having found out how to apply proper back tension this early in your archery career - took me quite some time before I could do it properly