TRied some 30 and longer in my back yard tonight with some new tapered cedars. funny thing is for me, when I am out in the woods it seems like 30 yards is spitting distance and I hold for a 1/2 second, usually less, but in my back yard it seems like a half mile. Then I draw,push my bow hand at the target slide straight into anchor, hold for at least one second, analyze my aim tension and follow through. Think about it, try to get a mental image of the last shot, and then try to do better and shoot at a smaller spot for the next. Some of the dozen at a time groups could fit in about a twelve inch circle and some groups had some drifters that would not. At least I did not hit the garage tonight, I did split a couple of the dozen so I am down to ten already.