rod jenkins/LC bale bridge programs

[targets3D]

I watched MBIII a couple of weeks ago - best $25 I ever spent on archery! I especially enjoyed Rod's section and his form instruction.  

I am fairly new to trad recurves - 8 months now so I decided to give the Len Cardinale bale bridge program a try per the video. I started bale bridge program but found it very frustrating. I think the idea to shoot the blank bale for a while tuning one's form then shooting at a target, if you get flyers due to poor shot execution then back to the bale for the remainder of the session - fair enough. The problem is I shoot only 5-6 arrows before I mess up one of the shots - due to lack of concentration I guess (though I am trying). I have been at this for almost 8 sessions now and find it very frustrating to keep going back to the bale.

How long does it take?
Is it realistic for one to shoot 40 good shots in good form consecutively?
How long does it typically take to groove the form in the subconscious?

Would appreciate any thoughts from those who tried this program

[shortstroke 91]

When we took Rod's class his instructions were to stick to the bale exclusively for 21(I think) days and then start off shooting 1 hour at the bale from about 5 yards. If at any time in that 1 hour you execute something wrong (AND YOU WILL) you spend the rest of that hour back in front of the bale concentrating on that particular part of your shot. The next day you start at the distance you left off the day before and shoot for 1 hour again. If all goes well the next day you move back 3-5 yards and start on another hour working on perfect execution.

[moebow]

Rod also told us that the bale becomes the most brain numbing and frustrating part of the bridge program.  You will  spend more time than you can stand at the 5 yard bale IF you follow the program religiously,  but a time will come where you move beyond that and actually complete the "bridge."  Only those with the patience of Jobe will finish it.

[Dean Lintz]

Rod told us in our class you will hate the blank bale so much you will not let youself make a bad form shot.

[jonsimoneau]

Targets 3d, I know it is probably frustrating...but you are doing it right.  Keep at it.  For someone just starting out..there is nothing better than either taking lessons from, or trying to emulate a really good shooter.  Since Rod is one of the best, it will probably behove you to stick with it.  Good luck!

[Archer Fanatic]

I have found that if you only shoot the blank bale to ingrain your shot sequence for 4-5 shots it won't happen. When I worked on the blank bale it was for a week and nothing else. It takes a while to ingrain it in your brain. I did this 40+ plus years ago and it works.

[chopx2]

Today was day 12 of Rod's 21 day drills and I am ready to shoot myself..., I was doing great after a few days and then a ground hog showed up Saturday morning and I committed the cardinal sin!!!! I tried to hit something well the rest of the weekend into today has been down hill...guess I wasn't ready yet.

Fortunately I had taped myself on my best day and after reviewing the tape tonight I plan to do a reset tomorrow...

Dean is right...you will hate it so much you will not want to go back...

BTW the key to not making a bad shot according to Rod was to let down and and not shoot it. He said that world class archers let down as much as 25% of the time yet we amatuers feel like we can shoot every shot...what do you think the odds are we have it all operfect more than they do who are only 75-80% perfect!

[targets3D]

Thanks for the great feedback. Nice to know I am not the only one who he is ready to shred that bale  

Another point, one of the things I noticed shooting a black bale at 5 yds is the arrows are grouping quite tightly in some cases. I am worried about breaking them (21 days of bale, chances are I it will happen). Does anyone move around the target a bit, do you shoot at longer distances?  Also, how long is a bale session during the 21 days - also 1 hr?

[AllenR]

One point on the bad shots - It's not if you get a flyer.  You should go back to the bale if your execution is in any way less than the standard that you established on the bale.  The shot may be a perfect bullseye, but if the execution wasn't good, then it's back to the bale.

This can take a long time. I heard a rumor that Rod spent about a year and a half getting back to the distances he shoots in competition.  But he ended up being one of the best archers in the world.  

If the year & a half is wrong, I hope Rod will correct me.
 
This program isn't for everybody. It's boring, it's tedious and it takes a lot of self discipline.  You have to decide how good you want to shoot and what price you are willing to pay.  However, if you HONESTLY follow it, you will be an excellent archer who can put an arrow exactly where you want every time.  IMHO it's definitely worth it to get that feeling.

Number of arrows per session - As many as you want or have time for.  You should do all of the drills that Rod showed you in every session, but sometimes you don't have time or are just not up for a lot of arrows.  Generally the more arrows the better, but there is a point of diminishing returns.   I try to shoot at least 40 - 50 arrows, but sometimes these old shoulders have to stop short of that.

When you are shooting the bale, don't group.  Spread your arrows around so you don't damage them.  But don't pay any attention to where they are landing.  The bale is just there to catch the arrows.  It would be better if we could shoot without arrows, but of course that would damage our bows.  The less attention you pay to where your arrows land, the more attention that you are paying to your form.

If you meant the bridge at 5 yards, remember that the whole target is the bullseye.  If you find yourself grouping, it may be better to shoot one arrow at a time.  Arrows are expensive, you don't want to destroy them.

Hope this helps,
Allen

[chopx2]

Since I am only a 2-3 yards away I only use one arrow and pull it each time. It also prevents me from TRYING TO AIM AND GROUP

this forces me to slow down and go through all the steps again. This gets me down to shooting one arrow every 45-50 seconds.

Otherwise I shoot to quickly and get tired faster.

[chopx2]

BTW what are you using for your hard tissue anchor. The tooth isn't very comfortable for me and my hand is too small to use the back of the jaw and thumb v. I've been trying to use my cheek bone in different variations, but my issue is the way that gives me the best consistent high low also causes me some discomfort because of the nock digging into my face or string will rub my face each time.

here's a link to a video of me shooting. This was my best day so far and I was using the comfortable but a tad inconsistent cheekbone anchor. Tell we what you that I could improve.
  http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/tbchop/?action=view¤t=Day4Conclusiondrill.mp4

[NJWoodsman]

Allen's advise here is spot on. There are a couple of pitfalls to this program, though, that could show up.

Since you're not using a target as such, or distance, there's no real feedback whether you made a good shot, other than your own self-critique (or hopefully, a coach)That is, you could be ingraining a form component which won't hold up when you transition to an actual target at a greater distance.

The other trap is a mental focus shift, going from consciously thinking about the shot and NOT aiming, to assembling the shot and focusing ENTIRELY on aiming. Initially after several weeks of only bale work, you might be WORSE than you were before trying to hit a spot.

After a month of bale work, I had to shoot a lot of arrows at a target, accepting the bad ones, before I figured out what I was doing RIGHT when I made a good one. Focusing on doing that improved my accuracy, and it didn't show up the way I was doing bale work.

[rightminded]

To your video, you already know your issues with your anchor.  I would adjust the anchor till its comfortable.  No to faces are alike.

[targets3D]

I noticed on the form instruction that the draw arm should follow an arc path to anchor and not just straight back to ensure back tension. I tried it and worked great - however, by doing that the arrow tends to point to the left for a while until I am at anchor or adjusted. The only other way I could arc the draw was the move the bow to the left at the beginning of the draw and bring it back to center at anchor. Anyone use this method?

[AllenR]

Karl,

I owe you an appology.  I misread your posts on the thread and when I wrote my previous post, I was thinking that you had gone to one of Rod's seminars.

You live close enough to go to the source.  Len Cardinale lives in New Jersey and it will be well worth your time to work directly with him.  He is still coaching and knows more about what it takes to shoot a bow than anyone else around.  

Send me a PM if you want his contact information.

Allen

[targets3D]

I have decided to take the plunge and try the bale program for 21 days. So no aiming for almost a month - hope the results are worthwhile