From Bowsight To Instinctive - How to do it?

[GrayRhino]

I grew up shooting a compound, and switched to a recurve several years ago.  I have a simple two pin sight bracket on my recurve and I enjoy shooting it that way.  However, I am interested in learning how to shoot instinctively simply to become a more versatile archer.  I imagine quite a few tradgangers also made the switch and I'd like to know what helped you transition from using sights to shooting barebow.

Thanks.

[moebow]

GrayRhino,  Take the sight off your bow, start close, like 6 feet and as you get more comfortable, move back two or three feet at a time.  DON"T rush it!!  Stay at the first distance for at least two or three practice sessions before moving back.  This is not a one afternoon exercise!  It is a LONG process taking most folks a few months.

I'm not sure how "more versatile" you will be, instinctive will give you a free-er shot but at a perhaps more restrictive range than your sights.

[GrayRhino]

Thanks Moe.  I'm not taking the sight off my bow.  I enjoy the accuracy and consistency that I have with it out to 60 yards.  I gather that most guys who shoot instinctively have a max. effective range of 20-30 yds.  By versatility I'm thinking of short range, perhaps tight quarter situations where canting the bow is necessary...which is not possible now as I hold my bow vertically to use my sights.

[moebow]

There's NOTHING wrong with using sights, I just thought you wanted to change to instinctive exclusively.  If you want the backup capability of a quick shot, at angles that don't allow use of the sight, try this.  In your upright target stance, before you shoot, set the sight on the target, then glance down at the arrow point.  Notice how far below the target it is?  That is the gap you will need for a shot without the sights.  Once you know about how far below the target at a given range the arrow point is, now try cantng the bow and only using the arrow point as a reference.  It'll still take some practice.  And yes, what I'm suggesting here is called gap shooting not true instinctive.  Once you understand and have a feel for the gap, that cross check will become less important and you will start a crossover to split vision and/or  instinctive shooting.  It will be difficult to disregard the sight initially but it can be done.

Have fun and experiment.

[ishoot4thrills]

Good advice from moebow. I recommend!

[McDave]

Quite a few of us do what you are asking about, without using sight pins at all.  At closer ranges, say 30 yards and in, we shoot instinctively.  At longer ranges, we use the point of the arrow as a sight "pin."  This works for me for ranges of 30 - 50 yards, where the point of the arrow is reasonably close above or below the mark I want to hit.  For ranges of 50 - 90 yards, I have learned to judge the range by the position of the knuckles on my bow hand relative to the target.  For 100 yards and up, I don't shoot, so I guess I wouldn't make a very good medieval longbowman, since I think they started at 100 yards, and went out from there.  If you want to shoot in the trad category in 3-D shoots around here, you have to figure out something like that, since they don't allow sights in the traditional class.  When I hunt, I shoot only instinctively, since I don't take shots beyond about 25 yards.

The transition at about 30 yards from instinctive to gap works out nicely for me in several respects.  The arrow trajectory is relatively flat for the first 30 yards, at least compared with its trajectory for the next 30 yards, so my mental computer doesn't have to make as many adjustments.  Also, the point of the arrow is far enough below the mark I want to hit that it is easy to ignore.

There are times where it is a definite advantage to be shooting instinctively.  You mentioned some of them.  Another one is in a 3-D shoot where the animal target is largely hidden in the bushes, I've noticed that gap shooters have a problem establishing their gap with the confusion of branches and leaves around the target.  If the spot I want to hit is visible, all I have to do is concentrate on it; I can shoot as well (or poorly) no matter if the rest of the target is covered by brush or not.

I'll never be any threat at 80 yards to a skilled compound shooter with lighted sight pins and a bubble level, but since that's not who I'm shooting against, I really don't care.

[dragonheart]

You will not learn to shoot instinctive/barebow with a pin sigt on your bow.  your consious mind can only focus on one thing.  If you want to learn to shoot barebow (without a sight) one transtional tool you could use is the DAS sight that 3 rivers sells.  It would allow you to center the target, but get used to seeing a sight picture that does not have a pin.  You would get used to looking at the spot on the animal only, while still maintaining a centering visual aid.

[GrayRhino]

Thanks for the good information and explanation here and in some pm's.  I know what gap shooting is, I think I understand what split vision shooting is, but the 'instinctive' shooting still remains a bit of a mystery to me.  I'll send some arrows downrange this week and experiment with gap and split vision.  

As for instinctive shooting, is there any definitive 'aiming' process?  How do you correct, or compensate for a missed shot?

There is lots of good advice here and thanks for it.  It's all fun, whether I use a sight pin, or barebow.

[dragonheart]

Instinctive aiming process:  Concentrate with every bit of mental intent you have on a small spot on the animal.  I mean concentration that there is nothing else in the world in your consious mind but the spot.  Shooing process is subconsious from many hours of practice.  How does a quarterback throw a football with a perfect arc right to the reciever some 30 yrds downrange, he has no sighting reference?

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Originally posted by GrayRhino:
Thanks for the good information and explanation here and in some pm's.  I know what gap shooting is, I think I understand what split vision shooting is, but the 'instinctive' shooting still remains a bit of a mystery to me.  I'll send some arrows downrange this week and experiment with gap and split vision.  

As for instinctive shooting, is there any definitive 'aiming' process?  How do you correct, or compensate for a missed shot?

There is lots of good advice here and thanks for it.  It's all fun, whether I use a sight pin, or barebow.

There are some very good articles on this subject, if I were you I would go do some reading up on the different styles of "instinctive" shooting, but basically it's either all instinctive or none of it is instinctive depending on how you look at it.
I'll probably get flamed for this, but here it goes anyway. What most guys call true instinctive shooting boils down to this, and I am one of these in the category I am about to describe.

We don't use anything as a reference point, not the arrow, not the hand, not the edge of the riser or anything else. We simply concentrate on the spot we want to hit, and if your anchor remains constant, the brain learns through repetition where to hold the bow....or more accurately where to "Point" the bow, and this style is also called Point shooting.
It simply means that we "Point" our bow arm at the target while concentrating on a spot, and let her fly. After much, much, practice this just becomes second nature and we just know where the arrow is going.

This style of shooting is the most basic of shooting styles because it requires nothing but practice and training your mind to just know where to point the bow arm.
This method works well out to the point where the arrow starts to drop. If your bow/arrow combo shoots flat out to 25 yards, then that is your zero. Everything from that point of zero forward is "Point and Shoot" anything beyond that zero yardage must be compensated for by hold over.

It actually works quite well for many guys including myself, because my zero point is right at the 20-25 yard mark and I don't plan to take any shots at deer further than that, so I don't compensate for anything.....I just Point and Shoot.

There was a rather popular discussion here somewhere on that subject, I believe in the Pow Wow section, or maybe the Shooters Forum right here somewhere?

I've actually killed quite a few deer with my compound using the method of cant the bow slightly and look straight down the shaft of the arrow. Mostly when I was on my way out of the woods and it was too dark for sights, but the deer was close, and it worked quite well and I didn't miss an opportunity at a harvest. I would never do this unless the animal was practically right on top of me.

When I shot with sights, I had form that looked like I was leaning away from the target. Too rigid and too straight up.  If you go to a more fluid natural form the arrow will appear under the eye,  even if you do not look at it.  If you go to a three under you will be gun barrel aiming the arrow, I tried it and did not like the limitations and lack of control  for quick shots.  As John Schulz points out on 'hitting 'em like Howard Hill" swing draw, straight draw the last 8 inches, body forward, head tilted, anchor at the corner of the mouth, no matter what your brain and eyes use as a reference point you will know where the arrow is pointing.  This may start out as gap or secondary aiming, but it becomes fairly instinctive at close ranges very quickly. The key is using a consistent fluid form that your hand/brain/eye coordination can rely on.  If you are mixing it with severe rigid target form and sights, the transition will not be as effective.

[swampthing]

Pure Instinct Shooting. aka... lack of a better term.   Oh how we chase this goal. Get a HUGE backstop, and shoot. When you realize that you need to be grooved in, with muscle memory, with an instant reference point recognition, whether that reference is primary, secondARY, OR WHATEVER you will forget the words instinctive shooting, and progress into barebow enjoyment, only then will you be shooting with a bit of "instinct." Just Stare!!!

[Bobaru]

There is a lot of practial advice on instinctive shooting which is good.  

When I started, I knew nobody but Fred Bear, who I only saw on TV.  Aside from that, I pitched baseballs.  All my baseballs went to the catcher "instinctively," which is to say, no aiming system was used.  To make matters worse, one has to create an imaginary rectangle and then hit the corner of that.  

Instinctive bow shooting is easier because you have more reference points.  And while training as advised is important, in the end, one learns in a fashion which creates visualizations and stores them in a primitive part of the brain.  After all, can anyone really adequately describe with mathematical percision which muscles in the legs and arms need to be flexed in order to create a cruve ball that starts outside and drops over the plate.  I can't.  

In my opinion, in the end, it requires lots and lots of practice and a love affair with the endeavor so that the visualization becomes impressed in the brain.  And, when you miss, don't beat yourself up.  Instead ignore it or laugh and continue on.

[SaMbO2]

Go into a pitch black shed and light a candle or have a glow in the dark object and shoot at it, feel were you like to anchor etc etc and never take your off your spot.

God bless.

[Sage Custom]

AS Samb02 said with one technical upgrade. Go out at dusk with a friend. Have them shine a laser on the target. (Tell them to hold steady) Shoot at the spot of light. It should be dark enough that you don't really see your arm or bow if at all. Start close and notice how well your brain groups your arrows.